Peri, Agreed, only it is not going to Tesla/Nissan but to their customers. The manufacturers are not reaping direct benefits other than that their prices are artificially lowered for those customers who qualify for (part of) the tax credit. The vehicle market is heavy regulated and incentivized anyway, that is why in some countries the majority of vehicles run on Diesel and in another country on Ethanol and yet another country has a large chunk of vehicles run on LPG/CNG while in USA consumer vehicles run almost exclusively on Petrol "gas" and slowly a shift towards electric drive... Of course there is a good reason for incentives as the emissions from road-going vehicles make a large chunk of the pollution of the air that we breathe daily, so it directly affects our collective health. Anyway, we are straying away from the topic, so let's just say that the review of the Smart is interesting, a couple concepts are not well understood/translated by the editor but in general it is a positive review of a useful city vehicle.
Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: Peri Hartman [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 1:35 PM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s Well, you could say Nissan and Tesla have a subsidy in the form of the EV tax credit. Nissan has sold over 100K Leafs in the US. If all those generated the full $7500 tax credit, that would amount to $750 million. A pretty sizable subsidy. Don't know how much Tesla's getting. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Cor van de Water via EV" <[email protected]> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Cc: Sent: 22-Dec-16 1:05:23 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s >Damon, > >That is exactly why I am teaching myself on everything I can learn >about >the Leaf that I think is necessary, > >enjoying the fact that the service manuals are available online and >knowing that Nissan cannot > >over-the-air botch up Leafs, since the 2G communication that they have >to control the car charging and airco will stop working end this month > >and if you are concerned about the cellular access to the car, then you >can simply grab the antenna cable behind the > >glove box and yank it out of the telemetrics unit. > >Also the weakest spot on the Leaf - the battery - appears to be >reasonable good engineered to allow DIY as I have done on several of >them now. > >The BMS is stand-alone which is a great benefit, as you can actually >run >battery and BMS outside of the car, even while still in the shell that >Nissan put around the whole thing, only 12V is required to run the BMS >and when you connect CAN bus you can use LeafSpy to log the data from >the 96 cells. > >So that is why I am in the process of transplanting two Leaf packs + >BMS >into my EV truck. > > > >In case someone ever wants to give their Leaf a better battery pack, >all >they need is another chemistry that is happy with up to 4.15V charge > >and that can fit 96 series cells in the Leaf shell and be water-proofed >and bolted back under the car... > > > >I am not bothered by the look of the Leaf, though I understand people >who don't like the styling. I simply enjoy the instant-on torque which >allows me to pull away first at a traffic light unless a real muscle >car >is next to me. > >Some people go as far as taking the Leaf drivetrain and bolting it into >another body, which is another way of creating your own EV. I will soon >have such a vehicle in my garage, once I get the Leaf cells hooked up >in >my US Electricar truck. > > > >BTW, the millions of other people's money you refer to, I presume that >you talk about the deposits? > >Because the claims of Tesla taking billions of subsidies have already >been debunked and Tesla was the first car maker to pay back their govt >bail-out loans, > >so I think that Tesla is doing an admirable job of staying at the >healthy side of financial responsibility. > > > >Regards, > > > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless > >office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info > >http://www.proxim.com > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >and >proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >received >this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >this message is prohibited. > >________________________________ > >From: damon henry [mailto:[email protected]] >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 11:11 AM >To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s > > > >Yes, there are Leafs all over the place here in Portland as well, but >I'm not sure what price Nissan has paid for this. Between government >subsidies and the investment that Nissan has made, I'm not sure that >the >Leaf or any other OEM EV has secured a viable future yet. I personally >think the Leaf is hideous to look at so will not buy one. > > > >I love the idea of buying an OEM EV though. I hope I continue to see a >variety available for purchase. It looks like there are a few of the >new Chevy Bolts at dealerships in Portland now, so I hope to go try one >out in person soon. > > > >I'm also hoping the Tesla influence pans out well. I do worry that the >whole Tesla house of cards may come crumbling to the ground. So far >Tesla has proven that by spending billions of other peoples dollars >they >can put some pretty cool cars on the road. Hopefully the investors' >faith in Tesla will payoff with a whole new paradigm in the automotive >industry and they will be a successful and profitable company. > > > > I spent the first 9 months of 2016 working at PGE in downtown >Portland, >which is one of the centers of EV everything on the west coast. I >enjoyed daily seeing a variety of OEM EVs plugged into the charging >stations out front. There is still not nearly the selection to choose >from as there is for "normal" vehicles, but there has never been a time >when you had so many to choose from. If you see something you like, >you >can simply write a check and it can be yours, but it still feels a bit >fleeting to me. I worry that I will wake up someday in the very near >future and I'll be back to having to build my own... > > > >Damon > >________________________________ > >From: EV <[email protected]> on behalf of Cor van de Water via >EV <[email protected]> >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 10:20:51 AM >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph, 0-100kph:11.5s > > > >During commute times, almost every 5th car that you see on the road in >Silicon Valley is a Leaf so I'd say that for intended purpose, this is >a >very successful OEM car. > >Cor van de Water >Chief Scientist >Proxim Wireless > >office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water >XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info > >http://www.proxim.com > >This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential >and >proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you >received >this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any >unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of >this message is prohibited. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of damon henry >via >EV >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:26 AM >To: Bill Dube; Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s > >Successful OEM electric vehicle??? Has there truly been one yet? >Perhaps the Nissan Leaf, but I think the jury is still out on whether >this EV thing will ever work out or not. I'm hopeful it will. > > >As far as EVs and transmissions I agree with you that they are not >generally necessary on vehicles engineered from the ground up as >electric, but perhaps one will make sense in someone's engineering/cost >tradeoff list. > > >I have the original transmission in my Datsun Truck Conversion and it >is >quite nice, but it is there because it was free and allowed me to use a >smaller motor and provides a reverse gear. On my motorcycle conversion >I have a single gear ratio direct drive and that's fine too. > > >Damon > >________________________________ >From: EV <[email protected]> on behalf of Bill Dube via EV ><[email protected]> >Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:11:52 AM >To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Subject: Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km >ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s > >CVT transmission? In an EV? Seriously? ><sigh> >No successful OEM electric vehicle has any sort of transmission, at >least none that I am aware of. >Touting a transmission on a prototype EV is a huge red flag. It shows >that the design team is very inexperienced (or was overruled by >management, which has the same result, unfortunately.) > >We can hope that the journalist that wrote the article got the facts >wrong. > >Bill D. > >On 12/22/2016 3:44 AM, brucedp5 via EV wrote: >> >http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/EVLN-2017- 4 >th-gen-is-the-smartest-42ED-EV-yet-r-160km-ts-130kph-0-100kph-11-5s-td4 6 >84960.html >> EVLN: 2017 4th-gen is the "smartest" 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph >> 0-100kph:11.5s >> The smartest smart car ever >> The first electric smart debuted in 2007 when 100 were tested in >London, ... >> CVT transmission gearing, there is an ECO Mode ... > > >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161222/d63 a >6f6d/attachment.htm> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20161222/1a8 6e8a5/attachment.htm> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
