I don't think battery's self-discharge is any significant factor, if that is what you are talking about. Typical self-discharge of Li packs is less than 0.1% per day so for a storage that should be able to bridge a couple days as in grid storage, this issue is irrelevant. Otherwise, people would not be doing just this...
Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info http://www.proxim.com This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. -----Original Message----- From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Abramowitz via EV Sent: Sunday, May 29, 2016 2:16 PM To: Peri Hartman Cc: Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smoothout the grid, +more The limited ability of batteries to store energy for long periods of time. - Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself) President, Community Environmental Services Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast Air Quality Management District Governing Board Sent from AltaMail From: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]> To: [email protected], "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> CC: "David Nelson" <[email protected]>, brucedp5 <[email protected]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re[2]: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 2:10 PM Why do you say "over long periods of time, not so much?" I would agree it's hard to say whether we can attain enough used batteries for grid scale - depends on how many EVs are produced and how fast we ramp down mined-resource energy generation. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "Mark Abramowitz" <[email protected]> To: "Peri Hartman" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Cc: "David Nelson" <[email protected]>; "brucedp5" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: 29-May-16 2:06:52 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more I agree with you on this...to a point. For small scale and short time periods, batteries are great. For grid scale over long periods of time... not so much. - Mark Abramowitz (speaking for myself) President, Community Environmental Services Senior Advisor and Immediate Past Chairman, California Hydrogen Business Council Board Consultant to Dr. Joseph K. Lyou, Governor's Appointee to the South Coast Air Quality Management District Governing Board Sent from AltaMail From: Peri Hartman via EV <[email protected]> To: "David Nelson" <[email protected]>, brucedp5 <[email protected]>, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more Date: 5/29/16, 12:52 PM I definitely would like to see incentives for installing "depleted" batteries as solar and wind backup. We're at a point in time where we can promote both wind and solar while winding down coal and gas power generation. Clearly, before we can retire all mined-resource power generation (primarily coal, gas, nuclear), we need ways to store power for times when wind and solar don't generate enough. Soon, we will begin to see a flood of depleted batteries from EVs. With incentives, the price offered for these used batteries would be higher, helping to lift the value of used EVs and increasing the demand for new EVs while at the same time helping to build our wind and solar infrastructure. In other words, right now, the need for utility level battery storage is low. But, gradually, as we retire coal & other plants, we can be building utility battery storage and boosting EV production and sales. The sooner, the better, in my opinion. Peri ------ Original Message ------ From: "David Nelson via EV" <[email protected]> To: "brucedp5" <[email protected]>; "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]> Sent: 29-May-16 12:43:01 PM Subject: Re: [EVDL] Old packs as powerwalls @L3 EVSE sites to help smooth out the grid, +more >On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 1:46 AM, brucedp5 via EV <[email protected]> >wrote: > >> >> >> Why aren't they installing these power-walls at well used L3 EVSE >>stations? >> Is there a major utility complaint that highly used L3 EVSE puts a >>high >> demand on the grid? >> That the EV's power demand during peak HVAC power periods are counter >> productive? >> >> I think that a prime candidate is this L3 station at Arlington City >>Hall, >OR (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/47270). It is in a "desert" >of >charging stations along I-84 and looking at the comments it is the >power >company that is charging too much. Too bad the owner just doesn't put >the >cost to charge to what it would cost for the power, at least initially. > >Even a battery unit that didn't have enough to fully charge a car could >be >used in combination with the grid where the grid is used to just below >the >demand charge threshold and the battery supplying the rest. When the >car >stops charging the battery unit would charge back up in anticipation of >the >next vehicle. >-------------- next part -------------- >An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >URL: ><http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160529/fc7 67a42/attachment.htm> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20160529/e762 3bb6/attachment.htm> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
