I think this discussion points out, though, that the money might be better placed on the house where it can lead to a bigger array, more electricity, and a better return. Of course, it probably takes a larger investment too.
Mike On September 22, 2015 5:31:02 PM MDT, Robert Bruninga via EV <[email protected]> wrote: >> I can't advise you what to do with *your* investments, as everyone >has >different needs, but these days a safe high dividend paying stock will >give you better and relatively safe returns. > >Sure, and now much of those S&P investeemtns are in oil and gas and all >manner of status-quo heading pel-mel down the dead end of human >extinction? Solar is not "relatively safe", it is quite strongly safe, >since the Sun will always shine and the value of the return only goes >up >as the cost of energy goes up. > >Bob > >On Sep 22, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Robert Bruninga <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Most investments pay more than that. Using bank interest as an >> indication in this low interest rate environment isn't appropriate. >> >> Huh? Tell me where? I have a CD at 2.2% and my advisor said hang on >> to it, since she knows of no other similar secure investment rate. >> The other CD is at 1.9% and same thing. She says that is about the >> same or better than she can get. My bank pays 0.8%. >> >> Sure there are better rates but at commensurately higher risk. But >> there is nothing more guaranteed and secure than the sun and solar. >Period. >> 10 to 18% return on your solar panel investment on one's house. For >> example. Bob >> >> On Sep 22, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Robert Bruninga via EV >> <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> Sounds like yearly payback is somewhere between $10.00 and $40.00. >>>> Sounds kind of small for an investment of more than $1000. >>> >>> That's 1% to 4%. Better than most banks. And FAR better for the >>> future since it displaces X amount of coal burning. >>> >>> So if it is equal or better than most other investments, AND it is >>> definitely better than using coal electricity for ALL of us, then >>> many would jump at the chance. >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> On September 22, 2015 7:19:43 AM MDT, EVDL Administrator via EV >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> On 22 Sep 2015 at 3:50, brucedp5 via EV wrote: >>>> >>>>> ? Is this a useful product worthy of the co$t, or is it a >>>>> profitable feel-good add-on for bragging-rights ? >>>> >>>> Much of the answer is right in the story: >>>> >>>>> As a yearly average, the system generates 29 percent of the total >>>> energy >>>>> required to drive eight miles per day in West Palm Beach, Fla. >That >>>> reduces >>>>> the energy needed to recharge the battery by 29 percent. Results >>>>> may >>>> vary >>>>> depending on area and usage. >>>>> >>>>> By continually transferring energy to the batteries, the panels >>>>> limit >>>> how deep >>>>> into the battery reserve a vehicle must go during a typical use. >>>> >>>> I suspect this is a best-case estimate. Let's run some numbers. >>>> >>>> First let me warn you that there's a fair bit of hand-waving here. >>>> I'm not an expert in these matters. If you're a PV expert and can >>>> come up with >>>> >>>> better numbers than mine, by all means please do so. >>>> >>>> IIRC a typical golf car range is around 40-50 miles. Using >standard >>>> T105 >>>> type batteries this amounts to an energy usage of between 126 and >>>> 158 Wh/mi. >>>> Let's call it 150 Wh/mi for convenience. >>>> >>>> Driving 8 miles per day will require 1200 WH per day or (1200 * >365) >>>> == >>>> >>>> 438000 Wh/year if you drive the car every day (as the PR release >>>> seems to suggest). >>>> >>>> This panel can produce 100 watts, but if that's a typical rating >>>> it'll only apply when the golf car is parked in the sun with the >sun >>>> directly overhead. >>>> At other times the output will be lower, but I'm not a solar expert >>>> so I don't know by how much. I'll take a wild guess and estimate >>>> that the panel will average 30 watts over an average day's sunshine >>>> (including dawn and dusk). Someone please correct me if that's too >>>> far >> off. >>>> >>>> So that's 30W * 12h == 360 Wh/day * 234 days (average sunny days >per >>>> year in West Palm Beach) == 84240 Wh/year. This is 19% of the >>>> energy required to drive 8 miles per day, about a third less than >>>> Club Car claim, but surprisingly close. >>>> >>>> But even my 19% estimate assumes the golf car will be in the sun >any >>>> time the sun is shining. If you park it in a garage, or in the >>>> shade of a building or tree, it gains little or nothing. How many >>>> people deliberately park their cars (golf or otherwise) in the sun >>>> on a hot summer day in Florida? >>>> >>>> Other factors will affect solar gain. For example, if you drive it >>>> on a tree lined street, or a city street with tall buildings around >>>> it, it will gain less solar energy. >>>> >>>> So, is this just a "feel-good add-on"? Well ... as with any other >>>> vehicle option, how much a given user gains from this one depends >on >>>> where and how she drives. But for most users, I'd say it'll >>>> probably yield more bragging rights than range. >>>> >>>> What it MIGHT do that's potentially at least as useful -- IF you >>>> park mostly in the sun --- is dribble a little charge back into the >>>> battery when the car isn't being driven. That'll improve battery >>>> cycle life a bit. >>>> Calculating >>>> whether the resulting battery cost savings will offset the cost of >>>> the PV panel will be left as an exercise for the reader. ;-) >>>> >>>> FWIW, in looking for info on this I ran across several dealers >>>> offering >>>> >>>> aftermarket PV panel options for golf cars. One claimed a (peak) >>>> output of >>>> 220 watts. The price was $1450. >>>> >>>> Is it worth it? I see 12v 50w generic PV panels on Ebay for around >>>> $100 >>>> each. Five of them would give you peak 250W into a charge >controller. >>>> >>>> Speaking of which, I see 48v, 30-45 amp charge controllers on Ebay >>>> at prices from $160 to $260. >>>> >>>> The dealer I mentioned above also provide a roof frame and struts. >>>> What do >>>> you think that's worth, maybe $150? So they're making around $700 >on >>>> each >>>> kit. That's a 100% return on the parts cost. Not too shabby. >>>> >>>> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA >>>> EVDL Administrator >>>> >>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL >>>> Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >= >>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>>> Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach >me. >>>> To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the >>>> webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . >>>> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV >>>> drag racing at NEDRA >>>> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV >>> drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >>> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >>> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV >>> drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV >drag >> racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag >racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >_______________________________________________ >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ >Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA >(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
