Please don't muddy the definition of bicycle, but instead
look it up in your local Vehicle Code, so it is clear what is
required and what passes for a bicycle. Some states do require
pedals, others don't. Some states require the pedals to work to
propel the bike to qualify it as a bike or else it is a moped, others don't.
Some states have two classes of motorized bicycles,
one that can reach 30 MPH and is equal to a moped including the
requirement for registration and licensing and another class that contains
the typical e-Bike that can reach no more than 20 MPH and is considered
equal to a bicycle, exempt from licensing and depending on municipal
code should be registered as bicycle or is exempt just like a bicycle.
Since those are considered bicycles, the max speed of motorized bicycles
that you can find in bike lanes is 20 MPH since the first variant that
can go 30 MPH must act like a moped, which typically rides in the
traffic lane.
California Vehicle Code on motorized bicycles:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/406

Note that it is easy to get confused between the
motor cycle:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/400

the motor-driven cycle (which is a light motorcycle of 150cc or less
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/405

The motorized bicycle
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/406

The motorized quadricycle
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/407

and the motorized scooter (which *may* be designed to be propelled by human 
power!)
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d1/407.5

And to top it off, there is the definition of the bicycle itself
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detail/pubs/vctop/vc/d16.7/39000

and then each State can enact their own deviating vehicle code
and parts of code for bicycles depends on you Municipal code as well...

Cor van de Water
Chief Scientist
Proxim Wireless

office +1 408 383 7626          Skype: cor_van_de_water
XoIP   +31 87 784 1130          private: cvandewater.info
www.proxim.com



This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and 
proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation.  If you received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify the sender.  Any unauthorized 
use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is 
prohibited.

-----Original Message-----
From: EV [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of EVDL Administrator via 
EV
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 8:36 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Questions answered> Should you buy an electricbike?

On 14 Sep 2015 at 21:27, Peri Hartman via EV wrote:

> Those are certainly bike characteristics but do they really make it a 
> bike?  If you use only the throttle and don't pedal, are you riding a 
> bike?  One can certainly design a scooter with pedals, small bike-like 
> disc brakes, and spoked wheels.  Is it a bike?

I'd say yes.  I'm pretty sure the Quando is a bike with an electric motor added 
- that is, the fundamental design is "bike."  It looks the part.  The battery 
is mounted to the seat post, so not that conspicuous.  The hub motor is subtle, 
too. As long as I pedal even a little, I doubt that anyone watching me realizes 
it's anything other than a folding (pedal-only) bike.  

On the other hand, I think it's possible to design from scratch for electric 
drive and still have a bike rather than a scooter.  IMO, it's a "look and feel" 
thing.  Take, for example, the e-bikes with batteries INSIDE their tubular 
frames.

And on the third hand (or left foot), consider the Electroped I owned for a 
while back in the 1990s.  the poor thing had an identity crisis.  It had a bike 
frame, with moped tires. The front brake was a moped type, but the rear brake 
was a bike coaster hub.  The name suggested "moped," but it had no VIN and no 
place to mount a registration plate.  Thus it was arguably a bike in legal 
terms.  

It had pedals and in fact I HAD to pedal to start out, because it had no 
controller.  The motor drove the front wheel with a friction puck, and if I 
didn't pedal, the puck would shred the front tire.  

Even with all that, it STILL didn't feel like a bike.  It just didn't ride like 
one.

A lot of the reason was its weight.  Two U1 size wheelchair batteries (24lb
each) were mounted (too high) on either side of the rear wheel.  A friction 
puck drove the front wheel.  The total was perhaps 75-80lb, but it felt like 
much more because the center of mass was high.  

I've never owned a motorcycle.  I've been a passenger on a few, and once rode a 
friend's (about a 175, I think).  I remember them as being rather heavy and 
uncomfortable to handle, compared to a bicycle. The Electroped reminded me of 
that impression.  Legally, I guess it was a bike; but in use, it was just too 
awkward to really qualify as one.

> The new all-terrain bikes have fat tires the size of motorcycle tires.  
> Are they bikes?

Why would anyone doubt it?  <puzzled>

> 
> These are subjective viewpoints and open for disagreement.  

That's no doubt true, unless / until the traffic code says otherwise.

It's off topic, so please don't comment on this, but this discussion reminds me 
a little of the chats I've had about what classical music is.  

Everybody agrees that Mozart and Brahms are classical composers.  Most think 
Stravinsky and Poulenc are, even Schoenberg.  But then you get to John Cage and 
Eliott Carter, and thought the academics say they are, some listeners aren't so 
sure. How about Terry Riley and the other minimalists?  Are filmscores by John 
Williams and Rachel Portman classical?  What about the legions of pianists who 
compose their own new-agey instrumentals and call themselves classical 
musicians?  

There's no really good definition, so it's down to how it sounds to you, and 
something you think sounds like classical music might not to me (or vice versa).

Similarly, it might be that whether an electric-powered 2-wheeler is a bike or 
a moped or a scooter depends on how it rides for you or for me.  What I say is 
a bike, you might say is a scooter.  In the end, though, what counts is what 
the DMV says.

David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EVDL Administrator

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: 
http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 
= =
Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me.  To send 
a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage 
http://www.evdl.org/help/ .
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =


_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

_______________________________________________
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org
For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA 
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)

Reply via email to