One last question and then I prefer not to extend this subject any longer since it appears beaten to death:
Paul and Michael, Did you guys actually *measure* Li-Ion cells over extended period to verify if they show self-discharge or not? Because the interesting thing is that self-discharge is not only well defined (so it must be an issue) but it appears that everyone who measured Li-Ion cells over extended time periods (and not just a quick voltage check that they still had juice) is convinced that they do show self-discharge. To me, it seems to be the classical case of “in theory, there should be no difference between practice and theory. In practice, however…”. Regards, Cor van de Water Chief Scientist Proxim Wireless office +1 408 383 7626 Skype: cor_van_de_water XoIP +31 87 784 1130 private: cvandewater.info <http://www.cvandewater.info> www.proxim.com <http://www.proxim.com/> This email message (including any attachments) contains confidential and proprietary information of Proxim Wireless Corporation. If you received this message in error, please delete it and notify the sender. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, distribution, or copying of any part of this message is prohibited. From: Michael Ross [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 6:30 AM To: Cor van de Water; Electric Vehicle Discussion List Subject: Re: [EVDL] "Zero self-discharge" (was: Bicycle battery) I think this is going to come down to semantics and word definition. I bet Popov never looks into self discharge because it is a basic non existent occurrence in lithium ion batteries. Which is what Paul Dove and I have been saying. I saw in the paper linked by Cor that he used self discharge referring to capacity loss. Here is Dr. Popov's website: http://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/engineering_and_computing/faculty-staff/popovbranko.php <http://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/engineering_and_computing/faculty-staff/popovbranko.php> I went through the occurrences of "lithium" in the list and copied them for your edification below. I will pull out the ones that seem pertinent to self discharge and capacity loss in a separate posting. Mostly that is not what Popov is concerned with. *snip* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150620/977f30e9/attachment.htm> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/png Size: 10048 bytes Desc: image001.png URL: <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20150620/977f30e9/attachment.png> _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
