On 5/27/15 1:15 PM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
I used 75 miles as the range because that is what Consumers Report is
currently reporting and I'd rather use an "independent" testing number
especially if reported range drops in winter.
Sure, as we've all experienced, the ranges of vehicles (fossil-fuel or
electric) are typically greater in warmer weather.
It's fine to use something other than the standard EPA range rating when
discussing EV ranges. But you might want to mention what you're using up
front since folks will generally be comparing vehicles using the actual
EPA standard.
BTW, the EPA rating itself is a bit conservative compared to our LEAF
experience so far. Our 2013 LEAF regularly gets higher than EPA rated
range in the summer, lower in in winter.
We get around 3.3 to 4.5 miles/kWh in colder weather and 4 to 5.5
miles/kWh in warmer weather (indicated). With roughly 20kWh usable from
the 24kWh pack, that's about 66-90 miles in cold weather and 80-110 in
warm weather at 100% charge for our mix of city and highway driving,
generally in Eco mode (but with full power always available from the
accelerator pedal when needed).
Based on the Consumer Report number you quoted, it would seem that their
experience is a bit different than ours. What model year did they test,
and at what charge percentage?
>>Rumors are flying about a 30kWh pack for the 2016 LEAF. If true, that
would likely get the range up over 100 miles EPA. Beyond that, public
comments from Nissan execs point to an upcoming 150 to 200+ mile LEAF
refresh for 2017. <<
Seeing the reported ranges increase from the pre-announcements is very
encouraging.
Yes indeed.
>>IIRC, Tesla's batteries are already twice as energy dense as the
current model LEAF batteries. <<
When I divide the Model S pack of 85 kwhr by the an estimated weight of
roughly 550 kg for the total pack, I get a figure of 154 whr/kg. Granted
that this weight includes the pack structure and wiring etc. and is an
estimate from an online forum. If I add about a 1/3 for this weight,
the energy density about doubles over a comparative LiFePO6 at around 90
whr/kg. When seeing the Jeff Dahn video of doubling to tripling of
energy densities, it puts the above into doubt.
A quick search shows the Model S battery pack referred to as 240 Wh/kg
and the LEAF at 140 on various internet reports. If those are accurate,
then the Tesla Model S pack would be about 1.7 times the energy density
of today's LEAF's pack, so not quite double.
Cheers,
-Jamie
On 5/27/2015 12:36 PM, Jamie K via EV wrote:
On 5/27/15 10:03 AM, Peter Eckhoff via EV wrote:
It's getting there. Right **now** the Leaf has a range of 75 miles.
Actually the current model LEAF is rated at 84 miles EPA range. The
old rating was based on an average between the at-the-time recommended
80% charge and a 100% charge. Along with changes in battery chemistry
Nissan removed the option to automatically charge to 80%.
Now for a big question, if the 2017 Leaf pack stays the same volume wise
and the range goes from 75 to say 225 miles, what would happen if that
pack chemistry were transferred in kind to the Tesla Model S? Ans: ~800
miles on a charge EV??? Suddenly, Gulf Coast beaches are in range as
well as Cape Cod beaches from a central North Carolina starting point.
Is this just a pleasant thought nearing reality or am I just wishful
thinking??? Let's see him write an article about that.
IIRC, Tesla's batteries are already twice as energy dense as the
current model LEAF batteries.
Would a $6K 2015 Leaf replacement pack still cost $6K for the 2017 model
Leaf? If people realize this, would current EV sales begin to drop in
anticipation? If I buy a 2015 Leaf today, would I be able to trade up
to a 2017 chemistry pack or pack?
We await word from Nissan on all of this. Longer range replacement
packs for existing LEAFs would be a great option.
Rumors are flying about a 30kWh pack for the 2016 LEAF. If true, that
would likely get the range up over 100 miles EPA. Beyond that, public
comments from Nissan execs point to an upcoming 150 to 200+ mile LEAF
refresh for 2017.
Cheers,
-Jamie
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