Complexity for profit, that is combining atmospheric CO2 and H2 from electrical dissolution of water with solar PV, that process is only about 50% efficient. And then, the ICE is only 20% efficient in combustion of that "Artificial" petrol.Combining those gives 10% net efficiency. Compared to charging a battery directly for a BEV and using the electricity to spin an electric motor at a net efficiency of almost 85% and the result is the BEV is four times more efficient than manufacturing "artificial Petrol" and combustion engine operation. So the simple conclusion is electricity that Solar PV or wind turbine or hydro generates is better used charging the BEV battery than the complex process of manufacturing hydrocarbon. The only reason for the proposal to use electricity for making liquid fuel is profiteering from sale of fuel for ICE vehicles...
On 8/22/14, Geoff Pullinger via EV <[email protected]> wrote: > On 8/22/2014 3:20 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote: >> As I have said before, give it another 100 years or so and we'll be >> digging up all those landfill sites to recover the plastic! MW >> >> >> On 22 Aug 2014, at 01:09, Ben Goren via EV wrote: >> >>> On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video via EV >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> http://www.hybridcars.com/the-oil-sands-surprising-new-nemesis-plug-in-vehicles/ >>>> >>>> Electric cars are Far more cost n energy effective. >>> At the $200/bbl range the article so casually mentions, even unimaginably >>> expensive futuristic technologies become economical -- such as using the >>> Fischer-Tropsch process (or something similar) to turn atmospheric CO2 >>> plus photovoltaic electricity into hydrocarbon fuels. >>> >>> Of course, as is the whole point of the article, powering vehicles >>> directly off of electricity is much, much cheaper than even refining >>> today's tar sands into gasoline...but it's comforting, at least a bit, to >>> know both that there're economic limits to how much fossil fuels we're >>> likely to extract (because alternatives, expensive as they are, will be >>> less expensive) and that we won't (exactly) run out of hydrocarbon fuels >>> for things like combine harvesters and intercontinental aircraft -- or of >>> hydrocarbon feedstocks for plastics. >>> >>> At the same time...imagine what that doubling of fossil fuel prices and >>> everything that relies on fossil fuels (like food) would be like. It's >>> not going to be a pretty sight. Those with local (e.g., rooftop solar) >>> renewable electricity production and electric vehicles will escape the >>> most obvious of the financial hits, but even food is going to get >>> expensive, and the global economy is going to suffer greatly... >>> >>> ...but, if we can make it past that without collapsing into chaos, a >>> solar-powered future should be mighty bright indeed. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub >> http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org >> For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA >> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) >> > If photovoltaics become so ubiquitous, cheap and efficient that we > could use them to convert atmospheric CO2 to hydrocarbon fuel wouldn't > we just bypass that step and use only the electricity? I'm pretty sure > that the current political structure of the US will find another source > of oil somewhere in the world. Rumor has it that Venezuela has reserves > that exceed those once possessed by Saudi Arabia. I really don't think > we will run out of oil any time soon. Energy budgeting would probably > find that Canadian tar sands are a net loss or maybe break even. Canada > has run out of oil but has discovered deep natural gas. The powers that > want to stay entrenched have decided to put the natural gas to good use > - making more oil. Who cares if Alberta looks like the back side of the > moon when they are done. > I'm thinking that the more serious shortage which will have to be > delt with is fresh water. The folks in Alberta may want to take note > before they destroy this resource. The southwestern US is being affected > by a multi-year drought of epic proportions. It does not look like it > is going to get better any time soon. Will everybody have to leave the > southwestern US when the water runs out? > We will have to start doing things that are unthinkable (but > possible) right now. One of those things should be water recycling. > The technology for processing waste water has advanced quite a bit. I'm > told the treated water coming out of our local facility is purer than > the water in the river it is being poured into (not hard to believe). I > was also shown that you could drink a glass of it without harm (somewhat > harder to believe). It amazes me that big cities like Los Angeles, > Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc. would not consider this. That would at least > help to conserve part of the %10 of Colorado river water that goes to > municipal water systems. > > -- > Geoff Pullinger > > http://www.evalbum.com/2445 > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.evdl.org/private.cgi/ev-evdl.org/attachments/20140822/587ce4aa/attachment.htm> > _______________________________________________ > UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub > http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org > For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA > (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA) > > -- Dennis Lee Miles (*[email protected] <[email protected]>)* * Founder: **EV Tech. Institute Inc.* *Phone #* *(863) 289-0690 (12 noon to 12 midnight Eastern US Time)* *Educating yourself, does not mean you were **stupid; it means, you are intelligent enough, **to know, that there is plenty left to learn!* * You Tube Video link: http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss <http://youtu.be/T-FVjMRVLss> * _______________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org For EV drag racing discussion, please use NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
