On 8/22/2014 3:20 AM, Martin WINLOW via EV wrote:
As I have said before, give it another 100 years or so and we'll be digging up
all those landfill sites to recover the plastic! MW
On 22 Aug 2014, at 01:09, Ben Goren via EV wrote:
On Aug 21, 2014, at 4:29 PM, Peakfoto Digital Photo Still n Video via EV
<[email protected]> wrote:
http://www.hybridcars.com/the-oil-sands-surprising-new-nemesis-plug-in-vehicles/
Electric cars are Far more cost n energy effective.
At the $200/bbl range the article so casually mentions, even unimaginably
expensive futuristic technologies become economical -- such as using the
Fischer-Tropsch process (or something similar) to turn atmospheric CO2 plus
photovoltaic electricity into hydrocarbon fuels.
Of course, as is the whole point of the article, powering vehicles directly off
of electricity is much, much cheaper than even refining today's tar sands into
gasoline...but it's comforting, at least a bit, to know both that there're
economic limits to how much fossil fuels we're likely to extract (because
alternatives, expensive as they are, will be less expensive) and that we won't
(exactly) run out of hydrocarbon fuels for things like combine harvesters and
intercontinental aircraft -- or of hydrocarbon feedstocks for plastics.
At the same time...imagine what that doubling of fossil fuel prices and
everything that relies on fossil fuels (like food) would be like. It's not
going to be a pretty sight. Those with local (e.g., rooftop solar) renewable
electricity production and electric vehicles will escape the most obvious of
the financial hits, but even food is going to get expensive, and the global
economy is going to suffer greatly...
...but, if we can make it past that without collapsing into chaos, a
solar-powered future should be mighty bright indeed.
Cheers,
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If photovoltaics become so ubiquitous, cheap and efficient that we
could use them to convert atmospheric CO2 to hydrocarbon fuel wouldn't
we just bypass that step and use only the electricity? I'm pretty sure
that the current political structure of the US will find another source
of oil somewhere in the world. Rumor has it that Venezuela has reserves
that exceed those once possessed by Saudi Arabia. I really don't think
we will run out of oil any time soon. Energy budgeting would probably
find that Canadian tar sands are a net loss or maybe break even. Canada
has run out of oil but has discovered deep natural gas. The powers that
want to stay entrenched have decided to put the natural gas to good use
- making more oil. Who cares if Alberta looks like the back side of the
moon when they are done.
I'm thinking that the more serious shortage which will have to be
delt with is fresh water. The folks in Alberta may want to take note
before they destroy this resource. The southwestern US is being affected
by a multi-year drought of epic proportions. It does not look like it
is going to get better any time soon. Will everybody have to leave the
southwestern US when the water runs out?
We will have to start doing things that are unthinkable (but
possible) right now. One of those things should be water recycling.
The technology for processing waste water has advanced quite a bit. I'm
told the treated water coming out of our local facility is purer than
the water in the river it is being poured into (not hard to believe). I
was also shown that you could drink a glass of it without harm (somewhat
harder to believe). It amazes me that big cities like Los Angeles,
Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc. would not consider this. That would at least
help to conserve part of the %10 of Colorado river water that goes to
municipal water systems.
--
Geoff Pullinger
http://www.evalbum.com/2445
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