Since you are seeking compliance with a US-based electrical code, the IEC 61000-4-5 documents may not be applicable.
Under UL 508 (17th Ed.), "Industrial Control Equipment", I found the following under " Isolated power supply circuit requirements": b) The construction or circuitry shall suppress internally and externally generated surges in the secondary circuit to at least 300 volts peak. See Transient Voltage Surge Suppression Test, ... And: 36.2 The spacing in industrial control equipment in which transient voltages are known and controlled by a transient suppressive device shall not be less than those specified in Table 36.2 except that spacings at a field-wiring terminal shall be in accordance with Table 36.1. 36.3 The transient suppressive device specified in 36.2 shall prevent peak transient voltages from exceeding 300 percent of the instantaneous peak working voltage or 300 volts, whichever is greater. See Transient-Voltage-Surge Suppression Test, Section 55. Not an industrial control equipment expert, but it seems that there is an expectation of voltage transients being generated internally as well as externally, and more likely from magnetic switching than from atmospheric disturbances. Don Gies Internal From: Brian Kunde <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 2, 2022 4:17 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC [External email: Use caution with links and attachments] ________________________________ Exactly!!! The IEC 62326-1 calls out Immunity Test Requirements for Industrial Electromagnetic Environment on the AC Mains, such as ±2kV Fast Transients/Burst, Surges, and Voltage dips and interruptions. If an Industrial Machine is tested and passes these tests, then is additional SPDs required? Or does the NFPA 70 & 79 make SPDs required regardless? Thanks, Brian On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 3:28 PM MIKE SHERMAN <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: If you are declaring conformance with the EU's EMC Directive, there are standard surge tests to run. There are generic "light industrial" and "heavy industrial" levels of surge immunity. As shorthand, "heavy" can be interpreted as a facility with its own pad transformer, and "light" as one that shares a utility transformer with others (think strip mall). There's also a "fast transient" test, as I recall. That might be related to lighting strikes, but there are others on this forum who know this better than I. Mike Sherman Sherman PSC LLC On 11/02/2022 1:59 PM Brian Kunde <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Very good information, all. So how do I know if my product is "effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply circuit"?? Can I test my product to the Surge Immunity Test IEC 61000-4-5 at some voltage??? 2kV?, 3kV? 4kV? higher? to make that determination? How is a Field Inspector going to determine if a product is efficiently protected or not? The manufacturers of Surge Protection Devices are saying their "listed" devices are now "Required", and there's no way around it. The hair on the back of my head sticks up when I hear such things. Manufacturers of Industrial Machines will not know if their customer already has Surge Protection, so why should the both parties be burdened with the cost of double protection. Can the machine manufacturer specify that the facility must provide the SPD? Instead of just requiring a SPD, why not require the Machine Manufacturer to insure their products pass a Surge Immunity Test of some kind? Isn't Surge Immunity already a requirement in the electrical safety standards that Machines have to meet anyway? You got me thinking, now. Thanks again. Brian On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 5:26 PM Don Gies <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Group, The requirement for surge protection in NFPA 70 (2023): 670.6 goes back to NFPA 79, "Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery." The scope NEC 70 (2023): 670 refers to NFPA 79, as follows: Article 670 Industrial Machinery 670.1 Scope. This article covers the nameplate data for, overvoltage protection for, and the size and overcurrent protection of supply conductors to industrial machinery. Informational Note No. 1: See NFPA 79, Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery, for further information. Informational Note No. 2: See 110.26<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F70%2F2023%2Fchapters%2F1%2Farticles%2F110%23ID000700000283&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121289566%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=t7qZL5BR5173v2xeujAHL1st%2B8jeSD8ABiBCcrSrkBQ%3D&reserved=0> for information on the workspace requirements for equipment containing supply conductor terminals. Informational Note No. 3: See NFPA 79, Electrical Standard for Industrial Machinery, for information on the workspace requirements for machine power and control equipment. 670.6 reads as follows (2023 NEC): 670.6 Overvoltage Protection. Industrial machinery with safety circuits shall have overvoltage protection. Under NFPA 79: 7.8.1, the requirement for surge protection is as follows: 7.8.1*<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F79%2F2021%2Fannexes%2FA%2Fgroups%2F7%23ID000790001728&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GIL6aSYPIWTzoYFVQ5DNIIN2rPRwaFJlOErGcwxTFzw%3D&reserved=0> Surge-Protective Devices (SPDs). Industrial machinery with safety circuits not effectively protected from the effects of overvoltages due to lightning or switching surges shall have surge protection installed. Exception: SPDs shall not be required where the risks associated with the effects of overvoltages are mitigated such that the safety performance determined by a risk assessment is met. Enhanced Content The term surge-protective devices (SPDs) has replaced the previously used terms overvoltage protection device, lightning overvoltage suppression, and surge switching overvoltage suppression in 7.8.1, 7.8.2<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F79%2F2021%2Fchapters%2F7%23ID000790000458&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cpS%2BKlKBlfYlD4BnLUtivpNz%2FNKnciI2NyIaThqaTMg%3D&reserved=0>, and 7.8.3<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F79%2F2021%2Fchapters%2F7%23ID000790001613&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RuZzALp1Z1DO56oY3hUb6kzkiwwIZN0W9C0IFDchdhk%3D&reserved=0>. See the definition of surge-protective device (SPD) in 3.3.104<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F79%2F2021%2Fchapters%2F3%23ID000790001610&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Q2yx%2FwqCXWv1jPOCdmTaycTor0bmUEc9KnI1oOcG2M8%3D&reserved=0>. The 2018 edition revised the existing requirement in 7.8.1 to require an appropriate SPD for protection of industrial machinery with safety interlock circuits to correlate with Section 670.6 of NFPA 70<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flink.nfpa.org%2Fpublications%2F70%2F2020&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qrTeU%2FwB1uRrYbavgtHQ2df6vpeZ7JNcj14VB5Z0MCI%3D&reserved=0>. Best regards, Don Gies Internal From: Richard Nute <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 4:03 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC [External email: Use caution with links and attachments] ________________________________ The NEC 670.6 quote triggers some questions: I wonder why industrial machinery with a safety interlock is required to have surge protection as opposed to machinery that does not have an interlock? Is an "on-off" or "run-stop" control considered a "safety interlock"? Is the "surge" a higher-than-normal power-line voltage or is it an impulse from switching or lightning? Does "effectively protected" mean passing the dielectric (hi-pot) test? Richard Nute Bend, Oregon, USA (Several inches accumulation of snow this morning, but above freezing.) From: Doug Powell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2022 11:28 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] Surge Protection Device required by NEC >From the 2020 Edition, emphasis is mine. "670.6 Surge Protection. Industrial machinery with safety interlock control devices not effectively protected from voltage surges on the incoming supply circuit shall have surge protection installed." It does not say where this protection needs to be applied, so I assume it can be within the machine or somewhere in machine supply. Also, does the product you are inquiring about fall under the definition of Industrial Machinery, NFPA 79? -Doug Douglas E Powell Laporte, Colorado USA [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> LinkedIn<https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fin%2Fcoloradocomplianceguy%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cdonald.gies%40se.com%7Ced21397842ba4987634b08dabd0f4d5a%7C6e51e1adc54b4b39b5980ffe9ae68fef%7C0%7C0%7C638030172121445815%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dg2zVsLndaPVZdNxJgt9ZAGw0f9piIZfJ9ozZKuEi7Y%3D&reserved=0> (UTC -06:00) Mountain Time (US-MDT) On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 11:55 AM Brian Kunde <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: It just came to my attention that section 670.6 of the US National Electric Code 2017 requires a listed Surge Protection Device (SPD) to be on any Industrial Machine that has an Interlock, or I assume any kind of safety function. Is this true? The only information I can find on the internet is from the companies that make and sell the SPDs which can often be very one sided. Is there more to this story that I am missing? Does the Surge Protection have to be listed? Are there specifications for the SPD? Is there a Surge Immunity Test that be used to validate and verify whether an additional SPD is required or not? Thanks, The Other Brian - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. 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