On Monday, John Woodgate and I unintentionally continued the thread without ‘replying all’. Here is what we are pasting back into the EMC-PSTC thread:
On 2021-12-14 17:29, Kealey, Doug wrote: Thank you for the link and summary. It’s unfortunate for the consumer electronics industry that the court ruled the way it did. Your statement that I highlighted is comforting. The same can be said of the 3rd edition right now, which is also comforting, and should be helpful in persuading my team to only spend money & time on acquiring 3rd edition reports (and no 2nd edition reports) from this point forward, until CENELEC adopts and publishes the IEC 4th edition. Thanks, Doug ------------ --------------------- ------------------------ ---------- From: John Woodgate <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 10:38 AM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? You won't believe the court case. In Ireland, a supplier sent a load of building material to a construction company. It was said to meet the applicable European standard, but it cracked after a short time and was shown to have an excessive sulfur content. In the resulting trial, the plaintiff argued that the standard was part of EU law, and this assertion went right up to the highest European court and was confirmed. Google has the gory details: https://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-613/14<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-613*14__;Lw!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!FNOEeJd37_L86N00uqh_SJF0feBzoJh57gjnt-m3KaY_ofFjjCkxFx-kjh1iLZkdqw$> To be clear, CENELEC could adopt and publish the IEC 4th edition unchanged (thus reinforcing its status as 'state of the art'), but the Commission would then not list it in the OJ unless it meets the legal requirements. What manufacturers would prefer is a CENELEC version that does meet the legal requirements. That would mean agreeing in CENELEC a range of 'Common Modifications' of the IEC 4th edition. But there is no guarantee that such modifications are possible, and if the need for all the referenced standards to also pass the legal test is also asserted, the problem becomes infinitely insoluble. ====================================================================================== Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!FNOEeJd37_L86N00uqh_SJF0feBzoJh57gjnt-m3KaY_ofFjjCkxFx-kjh0fS0X35Q$> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque ----------------- ----------------------------- ---------------------- On 2021-12-14 16:03, Kealey, Doug wrote: How unfortunate. That does not sound like a recipe for things getting back in sync in the next 2-3 years. I had no idea there was a court case. What a wealth of information you have. As long as the IEC editions keep appearing before the CENELEC edition, manufacturers will be probably be able to get test reports to the current IEC version and write a defensible justification for their EU technical file (to explain being one edition ahead of the EN version). This would avoid the bad scenario of paying for 2 different versions of test reports for each product. If the CENELEC editions were to be finalised before the IEC editions, then I don’t know how manufacturers will convince all the IEC countries to accept an EN 62368-1 test report that is 1 edition ahead of IEC 62368-1. Yikes. Best, Doug ------------------------ ----------------------- -------------------- From: John Woodgate <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 9:43 AM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? I'm afraid it's totally unpredictable. The IEC version will probably appear in 2023, maybe near the end; until we see the comments on the 1CD we can't tell. But we have no idea what will happen in CENELEC. It is widely agreed that the HAS consultants should attend the standards committee meetings, so as to get agreement on acceptable wording as soon as possible. But the Commission treasury has refused to fund that! I think that could be a form of 'knocking heads together', but whether any of the heads will be receptive is in doubt. While the situation could be resolved immediately by decisive action, such as declaring that standards are not to be regarded as quasi- or plesio-legal documents, i.e. reversing the court decision, it is very unlikely that it will happen. ====================================================================================== Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!De4WZNqYzAUEQd4xbB59r9exq8GZ45svV4PwfDNDSGNtbAE_OHxLZCiG778NUdXNVQ$> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque -------------- -------------------- ------------------ ------------------ On 2021-12-14 15:27, Kealey, Doug wrote: My thought after reading your email is that the IEC and EN “edition numbers” for 62368-1 will take some years to get back into sync, if they ever do. Do you see it that way, or would you expect that a serious effort will be made to transition to 4th editions of the IEC and EN standards in roughly the same timeframe? Best, Doug From: John Woodgate <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2021 4:49 AM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? TC108 (nor any IEC committee) sets a transition date, because national committees adopt the standard at different times. At one time, the small print of the Foreword advised national committees to take care not to adopt a standard associated with regulation without a period of notice. This was caused by an incident where product was shipped when Edition X applied but arrived when Edition X+1 applied. This text is no longer included. CENELEC however does set a 'date of withdrawal' because it forces member national committees to adopt its standards within a sensible transition period, usually 3 to 5 years, but sometimes other. In our case, it is 2023-01-06. If you apply Edition 3 from now on, the withdrawal of Edition 2 has no effect. The December 2022 date for Edition 4 is an aspiration. it is indeed improbable if the first CD attracts many comments from national committees, because all the comment and voting periods take up at least most of a year. We do not yet have the comments, but 14 countries made comments, 17 did not and 10 did not respond at all. It's very likely that some countries will not respond until the CDV stage, which delays the progress still further. ====================================================================================== Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GJ8m04vwj-DU-lr_7QdtAZ4qWdNsKmeU0K3qOIWyJ7anY4yH628vVM1yD6SW8e63Dw$> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque --------------- --------------------- ------------------------ ------------------ John, Good point. Thank you. I was conflating 2 different things, wasn’t I? So has TC108 given every indication that IEC 3rd edition will replace IEC 2nd edition as scheduled? Where would I find the end of the transition period for switching from IEC 2nd edition to 3rd Ed.? Assuming IEC TC108 keeps on schedule with their planned date that the IEC version of 3rd edition replaces 2nd edition of IEC 62368-1, then we’ll arrive at the point where some non-EU countries would be requiring 3rd edition and EU countries would likely continue using 2nd edition for months/years after Jan 06 2023. Does that sound pretty likely to you? I’d say that the only way to keep that scenario from being expensive and complicated is for manufacturers to take the advice you gave me yesterday and use 3rd edition and put a strong and defensible rationale in our technical files. I just looked at https://webstore.iec.ch/publication/66786#additionalinfo<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/webstore.iec.ch/publication/66786*additionalinfo__;Iw!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GJ8m04vwj-DU-lr_7QdtAZ4qWdNsKmeU0K3qOIWyJ7anY4yH628vVM1yD6Q2KL_Etg$> and was surprised to see that IEC 4th edition is schedule to be published in Dec 2022. I wasn’t expecting that! Best, Doug ------------------- ------------------------ From: John Woodgate <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 1:59 PM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? No, it's not a decision for TC108, as it affects Europe only. The decision was taken by CLC/TC108X, the CENELEC committee. ====================================================================================== Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!Bk-i5RIJWmbB0-NXjJjhP6CxvyErkaCh1liD51ktvrtxwTdYghKs1gbGFMfmodRJPw$> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque ------------------------------------------------ John, Would it be accurate to say that both IEC TC108 and CENELEC TC108x have both decided not to pursue citation in the OJ with 3rd Edition? Have a good evening and thank you again for your help. Best, Doug ------------------------ -------------------- From: Kealey, Doug Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 12:43 PM To: 'John Woodgate' <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? John, Your points are well-stated and a very good reminder to myself and others. (If you had cc’d any others.) Best regards, Doug ------------------------- ------------------- From: John Woodgate <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 12:39 PM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? I think there is a point that needs to be emphasized. The Directive requires the product to be safe. Conforming to the standard is, for the manufacturer, purely a way of assuring that there are no unaddressed safety issues that are identified in the standard. It does not 'demonstrate compliance'; at most it gives an a priori assumption. What 'demonstrates compliance' is the safety assessment documented by the manufacturer. That can include a test report of any vintage, but as it gets older it becomes less effective; it doesn't become wholly invalid on a particular day, even if that's the impression given by the Commission. The 'presumption of conformity' misleads manufacturers to think that if a test report says that the product conforms to the standard, the manufacturer need look no further to ensure that the product is safe, but that is not true; there IS a need to look further [**]. Since that is the case, a later standard is simply more reassuring than an earlier one. 62368-1 is actually a bit of an exception because edition 1 is not reliable, but edition 2 is pretty reliable. [**] The LVD has lower bounds of supply voltage, so does not apply to something with a 12 V battery. But the product is not safe (and the General Product Safety Directive would be violated) if it could burn up when the battery is shorted by an internal fault. It IS necessary to look further. ====================================================================================== Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only www.woodjohn.uk<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.woodjohn.uk__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!E-xb_Q_8kwHz_oek2R8W1V8ODn16q4gxiIRYzBZYpFjLMq5xTllRTE1Cq8l5aO_tWA$> Rayleigh, Essex UK Istae nunc praetereunt nisi non ubicumque From: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 11:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Hi Matthew, Very interesting. Does that mean that manufacturers who use module A or B+C to demonstrate compliance with 3.1.a of RED or LVD could actually rely on their EN 62368-1:2014 test reports for possibly 3 more years or longer? Best regards, Doug From: Matthew Larkin <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 8:50 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Hi Charlie Correct CENELEC TC108x has decided to not pursue citation with 3rd Edition. Best Regards Matthew --------- Original Message --------- Sender : Charlie Blackham <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Date : 2021-12-13 14:41 (GMT+0) Title : Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Doug I don’t have the citation, but understand that there’s a general rule that standards added to OJ listing provide (at least) an 18 month period before existing standard is superceded That said, there are a large number of reasons why the EU Commission have rejected 62368-1 3rd edition as a Harmonised Standard, so I’m not expecting it to be listed (EN 62368-1:2014 was listed under the previous acceptance criteria and published on the “C” list on Eur-Lex and my understanding is it wouldn’t meet the more stringent requirement to provide legal conformity to be listed on the “L” list as is now required for all Harmonised Standards) Best regards Charlie Charlie Blackham Sulis Consultants Ltd Tel: +44 (0)7946 624317 Web: https://sulisconsultants.com/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=47c10c8b-185a35c6-47c087c4-0cc47aa8f5ba-a85b2324af9a695a&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Fsulisconsultants.com*2F__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QPjiV_m0A$> Registered in England and Wales, number 05466247 From: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: 13 December 2021 14:29 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Thank you Boštjan, Your response is very helpful. If EN 62368-1:2020+A11:2020 is listed in OJEU in December 2022, do you think they will delay the DoW date for EN 62368-1:2014 until 12 or 24 months after Jan 06 2023? Is there a rule or a precedent that the Commission will delay it? Best regards, Doug From: Boštjan Glavič <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2021 11:11 PM To: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? CAUTION - EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click any links or open any attachments unless you trust the sender and know the content is safe. Hi Doug, As there is no successor of EN 62368-1:2014 listed in OJEU, there is no DoW for this one. Date of Cessation in your standard is is for Cenelec (standardization) purpose only. So EN 62368-1:2014 will continue to be harmonized standard after Jan 06 2023. Best regards, Boštjan From: Kealey, Doug <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Monday, December 13, 2021 5:42 AM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [PSES] dow date for EN 62368-1:2014 ? Hi All, In my copy of EN IEC 62368-1:2020+A11:2020 (3rd edition), the dow date for the cessation of the 2nd edition shows as Jan. 6, 2023. If the OJ does not list the 3rd edition as a harmonised standard until after Jan. 6, 2023 (let’s pretend the OJ harmonises the 3rd edition on May 1, 2023), will 2nd edition remain a harmonised standard until at least May 1, 2023? OR will there exist a situation for approx 4 months, during which there is no harmonised standard for this category of products? We have a plan that accounts for this scenario, but if I get pulled into a discussion about the way this technically unfolds, I want to be prepared to answer. Any precedents you can recall for safety standards? Perhaps a past situation where a new revision was late in being cited in the OJ as a harmonised standard, did the Commission push out the dow date several additional months past the date of being cited in the OJ, to give manufactures more time to complete their technical files and update their DoC’s? Thanks so much, Doug Kealey ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any attachments are for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and contain information that may be Garmin confidential and/or Garmin legally privileged. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the message. Any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this communication (including attachments) by someone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. Thank you. - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=0575c42b-5aeefd66-05744f64-0cc47aa8f5ba-6f7da801a7a8ddcb&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Femc-pstc.html__*3B*21*21EJc4YC3iFmQ*21FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJDshh3SRw*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMLTmkrGA$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=5faeb022-0035896f-5faf3b6d-0cc47aa8f5ba-ac686b079448c243&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fproduct-compliance.oc.ieee.org*2F__*3B*21*21EJc4YC3iFmQ*21FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJChr_63DA*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QNEOHt6Mg$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=daf9908c-8562a9c1-daf81bc3-0cc47aa8f5ba-55a051bbc3990dec&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2F__*3B*21*21EJc4YC3iFmQ*21FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJBOX7Llww*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QOOYsk83Q$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=aad804c8-f5433d85-aad98f87-0cc47aa8f5ba-ae029195e99d264e&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flist.html__*3B*21*21EJc4YC3iFmQ*21FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJA9-WVyWQ*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMPnSFCAw$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=65c0f523-3a5bcc6e-65c17e6c-0cc47aa8f5ba-a185d781b3d79a0c&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flistrules.html__*3B*21*21EJc4YC3iFmQ*21FkjxwoFg4zMfnwGI_KT4gwimKB8269hg81zlZhSjBpgsWrmq2zrMYHlqLJDuPA6eJQ*24__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QPw9HO-YA$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=7d899f34-2212a679-7d88147b-0cc47aa8f5ba-7dd267632faf4c67&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Femc-pstc.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QM3hwbVtQ$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMEzzN5NQ$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=1943c854-46d8f119-1942431b-0cc47aa8f5ba-8fb6aaed02cc92a0&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2F__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QO8ynNROA$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=380f020c-67943b41-380e8943-0cc47aa8f5ba-2a5f33977a81682c&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flist.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QNz5leZQw$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=79598c8c-26c2b5c1-795807c3-0cc47aa8f5ba-990b221e9f906e8f&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flistrules.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMEjdqdDw$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=5c6771ee-03fc48a3-5c66faa1-0cc47aa8f5ba-9f152ddf0ccd3ae8&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Femc-pstc.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QNRAMXv7Q$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMEzzN5NQ$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=3042383f-6fd90172-3043b370-0cc47aa8f5ba-da85e5361ed9c6a9&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2F__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QPCE-pqzg$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=a6b6bd84-f92d84c9-a6b736cb-0cc47aa8f5ba-f4cf4ddc44b0508c&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flist.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QOJLYIFFA$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=126181f7-4dfab8ba-12600ab8-0cc47aa8f5ba-e0d32c92871688ef&q=1&e=2808e23f-7fa5-400a-a41a-8255b859cb47&u=http*3A*2F*2Fwww.ieee-pses.org*2Flistrules.html__;JSUlJQ!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QO7fjk1kA$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> [cid:[email protected]] [Image removed by sender.] - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QNXa4IRdQ$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMEzzN5NQ$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QORJahu5Q$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QMctEdoFQ$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!CFZVpe3xd4XZjVwAGUXGfvIX8iX63xxn5uBko8F-U_3y35YmO022nL9-9QNMu_k3bQ$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GQ4BEYDnUUcITCxeESj5wFtdELmnCqW6pi4zlnMzolo-JyIIJePzKiCvIgoCWVyXug$> Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GQ4BEYDnUUcITCxeESj5wFtdELmnCqW6pi4zlnMzolo-JyIIJePzKiCvIgrOd-OLGw$> can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GQ4BEYDnUUcITCxeESj5wFtdELmnCqW6pi4zlnMzolo-JyIIJePzKiCvIgqwhBNN-w$> Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe)<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/list.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GQ4BEYDnUUcITCxeESj5wFtdELmnCqW6pi4zlnMzolo-JyIIJePzKiCvIgrdt5_cgw$> List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html__;!!EJc4YC3iFmQ!GQ4BEYDnUUcITCxeESj5wFtdELmnCqW6pi4zlnMzolo-JyIIJePzKiCvIgoum9XS4A$> For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> David Heald <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> - ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message is from the IEEE Product Safety Engineering Society emc-pstc discussion list. To post a message to the list, send your e-mail to <[email protected]> All emc-pstc postings are archived and searchable on the web at: http://www.ieee-pses.org/emc-pstc.html Attachments are not permitted but the IEEE PSES Online Communities site at http://product-compliance.oc.ieee.org/ can be used for graphics (in well-used formats), large files, etc. Website: http://www.ieee-pses.org/ Instructions: http://www.ieee-pses.org/list.html (including how to unsubscribe) List rules: http://www.ieee-pses.org/listrules.html For help, send mail to the list administrators: Scott Douglas <[email protected]> Mike Cantwell <[email protected]> For policy questions, send mail to: Jim Bacher: <[email protected]> David Heald: <[email protected]>
