It is much easier now, but I'd still argue that it is a colossal waste of letter-writer (and even search committee) time when it is a big search (e.g., for faculty). Even in a smaller university like mine, one can expect 30-50 or more applications (perhaps MUCH more at some bigger schools), with three letters each. I don't think that it is even feasible (or useful) for search committee members to look at all of those letters, at least not until the list has been narrowed down somewhat.
Mark D. From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Judith Weis Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 12:02 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Need for letters for job applications Letter-writers shouldn't complain. They have it a lot easier than back in the days when each letter had to be typed out separately on a typewriter. Now we have a template letter for a given student and just modify it for the particular position and change the address. Much easier! ________________________________ From: Ecological Society of America: grants, jobs, news <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of kapil K.Khadka <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 2:47:10 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Need for letters for job applications I agree with Brian and I have been going through this phase for the last couple of months. As a PhD student in a track of graduation, I am applying for a Postdoc position. And, everytime I apply I need to ask for letters from the referees. So far I have found them happy enough for writing a letter. Sadly, I don't even get a reply from the place I applied for saying (at least) " Hey! I received your applications but was not competitive enough for the position"! On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 9:22 AM, John Anderson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: at the same time, both as someone who writes letters and someone who has seen an applicant move from the "ah, whatever" to the "let's talk" pile based on a good letter of reference, I would encourage all of you to keep writing & keep reading. On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Fidele Bognounou <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi Brian, Very good point! There are even potential candidates that will not apply for a position because they don't want to keek annoying the providers of the letters. Fidele On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Patrick, Brian <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear colleagues, I have noticed over the years a significant increase in the number of position announcements that state that full applications must include three letters of reference. As someone who has been on numerous search committees, has written a fair number of letters of recommendation, and has applied for a fair number of jobs, I can honestly say that this is exceptionally inconvenient to applicants, to those writing the letters, and not necessary for an initial application. A list of at least three references should be sufficient for an initial application. Let's be honest, in a large stack of applications, only a few tend to bubble to the top, and they extremely-rarely-to-virtually-never do so because of their recommendations. Search committees, please do NOT require three letters up front. It is largely unnecessary and extremely inconvenient (for the candidate and letter writers) to provide this information if the candidate doesn't even make the cut for a phone interview. It's a wasted effort for the vast majority of job applicants and for those writing those letters for the vast majority of job applicants. In short, ask for a list of references only. If letters from those references are needed from a few candidates for whatever reason, then make the request after making the initial trim of the pool to the candidate list. If you do not have a choice whether or not this is required, then it needs to be explained to the HR person or whoever makes that call that it is largely an inconvenient waste of many people's time to provide the letters up front. It is always better to ask for a list of references. Thank you for your time and for letting me express my opinion on this topic. Too many young scientists are put in awkward positions because they have to ask for 14 letters from the same few people. Personally, I try to personalize each letter I write to the institution or type of job for which the candidate is applying. It gets very annoying to have to provide this when a colleague applies for a job that may be a stretch for them (but they should still apply!). I think they should apply, and I want them to apply-my ire lies with the committees that make that up-front request for all applicants. Thank you again for your time! Best regards, Brian ----------------------------------------------------------- L. Brian Patrick, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Biology Department of Biological Sciences Dakota Wesleyan University 1200 W. University Ave. Mitchell, SD 57301 USA Office: 605-995-2712<tel:(605)%20995-2712> -- John Anderson W.H. Drury Professor of Ecology/Natural History College of the Atlantic 105 Eden St Bar Harbor ME 04609
