I agree with Brian and I have been going through this phase for the last couple of months. As a PhD student in a track of graduation, I am applying for a Postdoc position. And, everytime I apply I need to ask for letters from the referees. So far I have found them happy enough for writing a letter. Sadly, I don't even get a reply from the place I applied for saying (at least) " Hey! I received your applications but was not competitive enough for the position"!
On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 9:22 AM, John Anderson <[email protected]> wrote: > at the same time, both as someone who writes letters and someone who has > seen an applicant move from the "ah, whatever" to the "let's talk" pile > based on a good letter of reference, I would encourage all of you to keep > writing & keep reading. > > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 8:55 AM, Fidele Bognounou < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi Brian, >> Very good point! >> There are even potential candidates that will not apply for a position >> because they don't want to keek annoying the providers of the letters. >> >> Fidele >> >> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 9:27 PM, Patrick, Brian <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Dear colleagues, >>> >>> >>> >>> I have noticed over the years a significant increase in the number of >>> position announcements that state that full applications must include three >>> letters of reference. As someone who has been on numerous search >>> committees, has written a fair number of letters of recommendation, and has >>> applied for a fair number of jobs, I can honestly say that this is >>> exceptionally inconvenient to applicants, to those writing the letters, and >>> not necessary for an initial application. A list of at least three >>> references should be sufficient for an initial application. >>> >>> >>> >>> Let’s be honest, in a large stack of applications, only a few tend to >>> bubble to the top, and they extremely-rarely-to-virtually-never do so >>> because of their recommendations. Search committees, please do NOT require >>> three letters up front. It is largely unnecessary and extremely >>> inconvenient (for the candidate and letter writers) to provide this >>> information if the candidate doesn’t even make the cut for a phone >>> interview. It’s a wasted effort for the vast majority of job applicants >>> and for those writing those letters for the vast majority of job applicants. >>> >>> >>> >>> In short, ask for a list of references only. If letters from those >>> references are needed from a few candidates for whatever reason, then make >>> the request after making the initial trim of the pool to the candidate list. >>> >>> >>> >>> If you do not have a choice whether or not this is required, then it >>> needs to be explained to the HR person or whoever makes that call that it >>> is largely an inconvenient waste of many people’s time to provide the >>> letters up front. It is always better to ask for a list of references. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you for your time and for letting me express my opinion on this >>> topic. Too many young scientists are put in awkward positions because they >>> have to ask for 14 letters from the same few people. Personally, I try to >>> personalize each letter I write to the institution or type of job for which >>> the candidate is applying. It gets very annoying to have to provide this >>> when a colleague applies for a job that may be a stretch for them (but they >>> should still apply!). I think they should apply, and I want them to >>> apply—my ire lies with the committees that make that up-front request for >>> all applicants. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you again for your time! >>> >>> >>> >>> Best regards, Brian >>> >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> L. Brian Patrick, Ph.D. >>> >>> Associate Professor of Biology >>> >>> Department of Biological Sciences >>> >>> Dakota Wesleyan University >>> >>> 1200 W. University Ave. >>> >>> Mitchell, SD 57301 USA >>> >>> Office: 605-995-2712 <(605)%20995-2712> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > -- > John Anderson > W.H. Drury Professor of Ecology/Natural History > College of the Atlantic > 105 Eden St > Bar Harbor > ME 04609 >
