I have been doing self-sufficient (no irrigation, no fertilizer, no "weed control," or other external inputs) since 1972 (retired from business in 2000), and I do not consider my work to be "human-assembled." In fact, I don't think anybody actually DOES ecosystem restoration, but we can set up conditions under which ecosystems can develop, including acting as dispersal agents (of seeds, spores, meristematic tissue, and other propagues as well as live plants) and perhaps even introduce animals, although I have never introduced specific animals (analogous to plants). We can also set up soil and geophysical conditions conducive to accelerating rather than retarding ecosystem development.
Ecosystems may be "human constructs" in our minds, but what is "THERE," whether we are aware of it or not, the phenomenon, the phenomena of Nature exists independent of our "constructs" and interpretations. If we had a lock on all natural phenomena, there would be no studying left to do. Lawns and cats ARE human constructs. WT ----- Original Message ----- From: David Duffy To: Wayne Tyson Cc: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem "I'd like to hear more about the "huge social component" with respect to "invasive" species, and would especially like to hear more about academics' discomfort in this regard."--Wayne Tyson Essentially invasive species are invasive because we say they are. Miconia, smallpox, feral pigs and black rats are species we believe are damaging to humans, our economic or ecological enterprises, or the environment. Similarly ecosystems are human constructs, as Tansley pointed out, but that doesn't make ecosystem science any less valid. Two example of the "huge social component" are lawns and feral cats. No one much worries about crab grass and dandelions in natural ecosystems, but Americans spend millions (billions?) on eradicating these vicious alien invaders of our lawns. Consequently, we poison our streams and estuaries with herbicides and the edges of lawns are prime habitat for the vectors of Lyme disease. The science is clear that neither species is a menace, but society thinks or at least acts differently. Or consider the feral cat. It kills huge numbers of songbirds and anything else it can take. It is one of the three horsemen of the Ecological Apocalypse for small islands and we are just beginning to account for its impact on human health through toxoplasmosis. But researchers who venture from strict science into feral cat management soon learn the lesson of Mark Twain "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way." Humans are part of almost every ecosystem. With so little of the world, if any, free from anthropogenic change, not taking the social component into account when doing research in ecology is an indulgence that is unlikely to be granted to our students, much less their students. --David Duffy On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 9:12 AM, Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> wrote: All: By "respectable," I meant "main-stream ecology." WT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Judith S. Weis" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 7:26 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem Respectable journals won't publish applied material??? I can't let that pass unanswered. There are numerous respectable journals that focus on applied areas such as pollution, aquaculture, agriculture, silviculture, invasion biology, environmental management and so forth. Even ESA has a journal in Ecological Applications! Some pretty damn good commentary, if a bit challenging to intelligently comment upon--mainly due to the scattered nature of the points alluded to. While I, too, am looking forward to the citations, I would prefer a separate healthy discussion on Clements and "invasion biology" from those well-versed in both. "Applied folks" tend to be held in disdain by academics, and "respectable" journals usually do not deign to publish "applied" material. This, too, is worthy of a separate discussion. I'd like to hear more about the "huge social component" with respect to "invasive" species, and would especially like to hear more about academics' discomfort in this regard. (What makes me most "uncomfortable" with the whole set of invasive species issues is that they seem to be a mile wide and an inch deep--a fertile field, if you'll pardon the punny irony, for academicians to dig deeper into. Perhaps then some of the folklore in this area of action-with-little-study can be clarified or disposed of. This brings us back to one of the several reasons Ascension Island might be instructive. Is it a "human-assembled" ecosystem or is it "just" an assemblage of species, each of which is doing what it can, when it can, where it can? Ah-HA! This gets us close to the nitty-gritty of what an ecosystem is--AND WHY! And perhaps more important, what an ecosystem IS NOT! While the concept of "novel ecosystems" does nauseate me, I'm open to being converted--and then falling from grace, as it were, perhaps yo-yo like, until the end of my days. What I think of it now already seems like "blithering stupidity" to me, but I'm interested in cogent arguments to the contrary. Ecological history has always fascinated me, and I hope someone will bring it all into focus soon! There was an interesting film treatment on (the History Channel?) what would happen after humans died out fairly recently, and while it was a good start, it seemed high on sensation and a bit lacking on references (well, what can we expect from show-biz?). Let's take this a bit further into the nuts and bolts of evolution. WT ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Duffy" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 1:18 PM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem Hi Ian, "While plant ecology abandoned Clements a generation or two ago, like a lot of things that hasn't always trickled down to more applied areas." Just out of curiosity, can you cite a few references where Clements in still used in invasion biology, specifically in "more applied areas"? I admit it is annoying but applied folks tend not to publish and when they do, it is often in gray literature. Many academic biologists thus may have a relatively uninformed, Rumsfeldian knowledge of what happens on the ground. In addition, management of invasive species has a huge social component. Relatively few academics are familiar, much less comfortable, with this aspect. Finally there is the problem when protecting rare 'primary' forest that ivory tower academics serve albeit unwittingly as effective apologists for the destruction of the same. What does it matter if the forest goes? Super tramp species can often "provide the same services" and look forest. My best examples are all those novel forestry projects China has tried, like the Green Wall in its grasslands or the evergreen forests in heavy snow belts. It is sort of like regional cooking versus Western fast food. Macdonalds and Kentucky Fried Chicken can arguably provide nutrition and definitely taste great, but these invasive aliens threaten regional foods and indirectly local cultures. We can live in a world of Big Macs and fries, or we can sample baozi, feijoada, yak yogurt, gallo pinto, pachamanca/hangi, or callalo, although, personally having tried them, I will not much mourn the passing of muktuk, haggis, Vegemite, and guinea pig. Finally there is the arrogance of the present. Much of conservation biology is ultimately about preserving options for our children and their children's children. Our knowledge about "novel ecosystems" is basically recent and primitive, as is our knowledge of invasion biology. What seems like a good idea involving "novel ecosystems" may be seen as blithering stupidity a century from now, as new crop pests continue to arrive (elm, chestnut etc, etc), local diseases turn epidemic (SARS), fires rearrange the suburbs, and watersheds dry up. Not that the US lacks for its share. There is a marvelous field called ecological history. Cronon, Crosby, Pyne, McEvoy (to mention a few of my favorites) cover invasive species as part of a bigger picture which appears to be too often lacking in contemporary ecology. They are worth reading. Cows, grass, bees, Europeans were all invasive taxa that have now become part of the American landscape, dominants in "novel ecosystems". Had one asked the Sioux or Nez Perce in 1877 or 1890 whether cows or Europeans were invasive, well history speaks for itself. Cheers, David Duffy On Fri, Aug 30, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Ian Ramjohn <[email protected]> wrote: While plant ecology abandoned Clements a generation or two ago, like a lot of things that hasn't always trickled down to more applied areas. For this stuff specifically, there's a whole literature on 'novel ecosystems' that has developed in the last several years...Richard Hobbs, Ariel Lugo, Timothy Seasted, etc. Plenty by Lugo et al. on tropical forest systems. On Aug 29, 2013, at 6:49 PM, "David Duffy" <[email protected]> wrote: > I'd suggest that before folks get too excited about challenges to "our > ideas regarding community assembly", they reread Gleason (1926), Whittaker > (1975) and Hubbell (2001), amongst others. Also isolated islands with > depauperate faunas and floras may not be the best models for general > ecological theory, although they have done pretty well for evolution. > > David Duffy > > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:01 AM, Richard Boyce <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Here's a *very* interesting story on the human-assembled ecosystems of >> Ascension Island in the tropical South Atlantic: >> http://e360.yale.edu/feature/on_a_remote_island_lessons__in_how_ecosystems_function/2683/ >> >> I suspect that further research here may challenge our ideas regarding >> community assembly. >> >> ================================ >> Richard L. Boyce, Ph.D. >> Director, Environmental Science Program >> Professor >> Department of Biological Sciences, SC 150 >> Northern Kentucky University >> Nunn Drive >> Highland Heights, KY 41099 USA >> >> 859-572-1407 (tel.) >> 859-572-5639 (fax) >> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> >> http://www.nku.edu/~boycer/ >> ================================= >> >> "One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly >> making exciting discoveries." - A.A. Milne > > > > -- > > Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit > Botany > University of Hawaii > 3190 Maile Way > Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA > 1-808-956-8218 -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218 -- Pacific Cooperative Studies Unit Botany University of Hawaii 3190 Maile Way Honolulu Hawaii 96822 USA 1-808-956-8218
