I believe that almost everybody on this list is aware Dear Thomas,
I believe that almost everybody on this list is aware that "Even highly diverse, apparently sustainable agricultural systems – like the forest gardens of lowland Samoa – wind up displacing/destroying much biodiversity when human population densities are even moderately dense." But the point is, what is your suggestion to start quickly mitigating/solving the environmental destruction brought up by humans while aiming/wishing for lower population densities? What is your plan? Forest gardens can be established and become functional in 10-15 years removing much of the energy input, soil destruction, water demand and toxic waste production of current agricultural land, pastures, lawns and urban green areas. Seeing the urgency it would be more useful to invest time to agree on a plan than on not so essential definitions. Francesca ________________________________ From: Thomas J. Givnish <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 2, 2013 2:28 AM Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem Even highly diverse, apparently sustainable agricultural systems – like the forest gardens of lowland Samoa – wind up displacing/destroying much biodiversity when human population densities are even moderately dense. Harking to an earlier thread: while invasive species can, in the short term, increase local species richness, in the long term the broad spread of a few weedy or commensal species can erode global biodiversity substantially, by driving many local species to extinction or nearly so. That's already happened on many tropical islands, and is in the process of happening many other places. Don Strong's pithy questions are the best response to the shallow account re Ascension Island that triggered this string. His questions are posted (ca. Aug 26) with the article. Thomas J. Givnish Henry Allan Gleason Professor of Botany University of Wisconsin [email protected] http://botany.wisc.edu/givnish/Givnish/Welcome.html On 09/01/13, "[email protected]" wrote: > Dear Wayne, > > Indeed, but there is a huge difference between a corn field and that forest > in Ascension Island, or a corn field and what the forest gardening movement > is trying to achieve. The further we move away from the high energy input, > low biodiversity, soil fertility destroying, water demanding, toxic waste producing side to sustain us the better off we and the planet will be. > > And until we are not ready to go back to hunter and gatherer life style and > low population densities we are forced to occupy some land aimed to the > production of food and other commodities. In this context edible forests > assembled by humans seem something worth a trial as a step towards something > more sustainable. > > It doesn't matter if someone wants to call the high energy input, low > biodiversity, soil fertility destroying, water demanding, toxic waste > producing assemblage "an ecosystem". Call it what you wish but do something > to move away from it cause it won't sustain you for too long. There is really > no time to argue on definitions. > > Francesca > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Wayne Tyson <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 4:52 PM > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem > > > Cultivation of plants and animals, by definition, replaces complex, > self-sustaining ecosystems with monocultures or "polycultures." > > WT > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 3:11 AM > Subject: Re: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem > > > Very interesting article and subject considering we are in a terrible > urgency to restore so much degraded land and to start producing food in a > more sustainable way. > It is not about advocating for replacing a native forest with a > human-assembled ecosystem of course, but starting replacing monoculture > agricultural fields, pastures, degraded abandoned lands with a forested > ecosystem assembled by humans with the purpose to provide food is probably > the future of our species and a step towards real sustainability. > Yes, unfortunately "applied projects" hardly are ever published but in the > world of permaculture, edible forest gardening and the alike people are > trying to create diverse self-maintaining forested ecosystems that provide > for human needs (food, fuel, fodder, fiber, timber) in a sustainable manner. > This approach might allow humans to contribute positively to life on this > planet rather than negatively as we have been historically accustomed to do. > Here a list of institutes I am aware of that research on and promote this > type of approach to agriculture and human sustenance: > > Temperate: > http://www.edibleforestgardens.com/about_gardening > http://www.apiosinstitute.org/ > http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/forgndg.html > Subtropical: > http://www.permaculturenews.org/about-permaculture-and-the-pri/ > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca3SRjHfMX8 > > I hope to see the scientific community putting more effort in this type of > urgently needed research and projects. > > Francesca > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Richard Boyce <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:01 PM > Subject: [ECOLOG-L] Human-assembled ecosystem > > > Here's a *very* interesting story on the human-assembled ecosystems of > Ascension Island in the tropical South Atlantic: > http://e360.yale.edu/feature/on_a_remote_island_lessons__in_how_ecosystems_function/2683/ > > I suspect that further research here may challenge our ideas regarding > community assembly. > > ================================ > Richard L. Boyce, Ph.D. > Director, Environmental Science Program > Professor > Department of Biological Sciences, SC 150 > Northern Kentucky University > Nunn Drive > Highland Heights, KY 41099 USA > > 859-572-1407 (tel.) > 859-572-5639 (fax) > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected](javascript:main.compose()> > http://www.nku.edu/~boycer/ > ================================= > > "One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making > exciting discoveries." - A.A. Milne --
