On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 01:53:37PM +0300, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2025 11:21:35 +0300 Laurent Pinchart wrote:
> > On Mon, Mar 31, 2025 at 10:54:46AM +0300, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 17:35:39 +0100 Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 at 16:59, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 16:21:16 +0200 Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
> > > > > > On 27/03/2025 11:20, Pekka Paalanen wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 15:55:18 +0200 Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
> > > > > > >> On 26/03/2025 15:52, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
> > > > > > >>> On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 at 14:23, Tomi Valkeinen wrote:
> > > > > > >>>> Add greyscale Y8 format.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Acked-by: Dmitry Baryshkov <dmitry.barysh...@linaro.org>
> > > > > > >>>> Signed-off-by: Tomi Valkeinen
> > > > > > >>>> <tomi.valkei...@ideasonboard.com>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Thanks for your patch!
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> --- a/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h
> > > > > > >>>> +++ b/include/uapi/drm/drm_fourcc.h
> > > > > > >>>> @@ -405,6 +405,9 @@ extern "C" {
> > > > > > >>>> #define DRM_FORMAT_YUV444 fourcc_code('Y', 'U', '2',
> > > > > > >>>> '4') /* non-subsampled Cb (1) and Cr (2) planes */
> > > > > > >>>> #define DRM_FORMAT_YVU444 fourcc_code('Y', 'V', '2',
> > > > > > >>>> '4') /* non-subsampled Cr (1) and Cb (2) planes */
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> +/* Greyscale formats */
> > > > > > >>>> +
> > > > > > >>>> +#define DRM_FORMAT_Y8 fourcc_code('G', 'R', 'E',
> > > > > > >>>> 'Y') /* 8-bit Y-only */
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> This format differs from e.g. DRM_FORMAT_R8, which encodes
> > > > > > >>> the number of bits in the FOURCC format. What do you envision
> > > > > > >>> for e.g. DRM_FORMAT_Y16? fourcc_code('G', 'R', '1', '6')?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I wanted to use the same fourcc as on V4L2 side. Strictly
> > > > > > >> speaking it's
> > > > > > >> not required, but different fourccs for the same formats do
> > > > > > >> confuse.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> So, generally speaking, I'd pick an existing fourcc from v4l2
> > > > > > >> side if
> > > > > > >> possible, and if not, invent a new one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what's the actual difference between DRM_FORMAT_R8 and
> > > > > > > DRM_FORMAT_Y8?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is the difference that when R8 gets expanded to RGB, it becomes
> > > > > > > (R, 0,
> > > > > > > 0), but Y8 gets expanded to (c1 * Y, c2 * Y, c3 * Y) where c1..c3
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > defined by MatrixCoefficients (H.273 terminology)?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That would be my intuitive assumption following how YCbCr is
> > > > > > > handled.
> > > > > > > Is it obvious enough, or should there be a comment to that
> > > > > > > effect?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You raise an interesting point. Is it defined how a display driver,
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > supports R8 as a format, shows R8 on screen? I came into this in the
> > > > > > context of grayscale formats, so I thought R8 would be handled as
> > > > > > (R, R,
> > > > > > R) in RGB. But you say (R, 0, 0), which... also makes sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > That is a good question too. I based my assumption on OpenGL behavior
> > > > > of R8.
> > > > >
> > > > > Single channel displays do exist I believe, but being single-channel,
> > > > > expansion on the other channels is likely meaningless. Hm, but for the
> > > > > KMS color pipeline, it would be meaningful, like with a CTM.
> > > > > Interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't know. Maybe Geert does?
> > > >
> > > > I did some digging, and was a bit surprised that it was you who told
> > > > me to use R8 instead of Y8?
> > > > https://lore.kernel.org/all/20220202111954.6ee9a10c@eldfell
> > >
> > > Hi Geert,
> > >
> > > indeed I did. I never thought of the question of expansion to R,G,B
> > > before. Maybe that expansion is what spells R8 and Y8 apart?
> > >
> > > I do think that expansion needs to be specified, so that the KMS color
> > > pipeline computations are defined. There is a big difference between
> > > multiplying these with an arbitrary 3x3 matrix (e.g. CTM):
> > >
> > > - (R, 0, 0)
> > > - (R, R, R)
> > > - (c1 * Y, c2 * Y, c3 * Y)
> >
> > I'd be very surprised by an YUV to RGB conversion matrix where the first
> > column would contain different values. What we need to take into account
> > though is quantization (full vs. limited range).
>
> A good point, are the Y coefficients always 1.0 after quantization
> range has been accounted for?
As far as I understand, they should be. RGB is full range, so the Y
range should map to [0.0, 1.0] in RGB space. I'm also not aware of any
colorspace where a grey colour would have different R, G and B values.
There's a related but separate question: if Y is a luma (in Y'CbCr
terms), it will not be linear, compared to the Y luminance (YCbCr). We
have a DEGAMMA_LUT to linearize data, but that's in the CRTC output
path, not in the plane path, and I don't see any API element to specify
the transfer function of data input to a CRTC.
> That makes Y8 produce (Y, Y, Y), and we have our answer: R8 should be
> (R, 0, 0), so we have both variants. Or do we need Y-formats at all?
>
> Can we specify Y, R, G and B be nominal values in the range 0.0 - 1.0
> in the KMS color processing?
>
> > > I forgot to consider that in the discussion of single-channel displays,
> > > because the displays obviously do not consider any other channel than
> > > the one.
> > >
> > > Using DRM_FORMAT_Y8 FB with a single-channel display might even be
> > > surprising, because the proposed Y8 definition would result in c1 * Y,
> > > and not Y. The default c1 comes from the BT.601 matrix IIRC?
> > >
> > > Therefore I think the difference between R8 and Y8 has been found. Now
> > > we just need to determine whether R8 means (R, 0, 0) or (R, R, R) to
> > > nail down the color operations as well. There are questions like what
> > > is the outcome at the video signal level when we have one KMS plane
> > > with an R8 FB and another KMS plane with an RGBA8888 FB on the same
> > > CRTC? What about Y8 or NV12 in the mix? What if the video signal is
> > > single-channel, RGB, or YCbCr?
--
Regards,
Laurent Pinchart
