On Sat, 5 May 2018 at 11:19:19 -0400 "taii...@gmx.com" <taii...@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 05/05/2018 03:29 AM, Alessandro Selli wrote: [...] >> On 05/05/2018 at 03:34, taii...@gmx.com wrote: [...] >>> as evidenced by >>> many competing products such as the free replicant and the costly GSMK >>> CryptoPhone from ESD America which is currently sold to government >>> agencies marketed with a "Baseband Firewall" >> You're comparing different kinds of products, Purism5 is a consumer >> smartphone, not a "government agencies marketed" cryptophone. Just like a >> regular laptop is just a general purpose laptop, not a cryptolaptop. > ESD's products were originally sold to individuals, the government > contracts came later. So what? The Librem5 is going to be sold to individuals, maybe later on it's going to be sold to government agencies. What you stated about it is still false. > The Openmoko phones were sold with modem isolation as one of the > advertising points - so that is a cheap phone that is still marketed to > individuals. So what? The key question is still unanswered: where did you get that the Librem5 is going to have the baseband and CPU glued together, contrary to what Purism engineers stated (neighter the i.MX6 nor the i.MX8 have a modem or WiFi built in)? The Openmoko are phones of a different age, when every phone had separated hardware components for functions that later SoC put together in the same silicon to lower costs. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page Latest News 2011-12-01: Community Updates for 12/2011 http://projects.goldelico.com/p/gta04-main/ Note: this is not a complete phone. You need to get a new or used Neo 1973 or Neo Freerunner unless you purchase one of the rare complete Letux 2804 units. Or you take a Case Kit plus a 3D printed or 3D cut case http://shop.goldelico.com/wiki.php?page=GTA04%20Complete Display: 7.1cm / 2.8 inch, VGA resolution (480x640 = 285ppi), Touchscreen GTA04A5 currently not in stock. GTA04A4 currently not in stock. Letux 2804 currently not in stock. I'll say no more. >>> If it had that they would mention it as it is a core feature. >> Is this all you have to back up your claims? >> Again, the Librem5's hardware layout is not finalized yet and they are >> still in the transition phase from the i.MX6 to the i.MX8 CPU, they do not >> advertise what is not there yet. But they are intentioned to design the >> smartphone to have the different logical components actually separated in >> hardware: >> >> https://forums.puri.sm/t/level-of-freedom-of-librem-phone-especially-gsm-mdule/1316 >> >> First we want to make sure that the 3G/4G modem is as separate as >> possible from the main CPU and RAM. Thus we can not and will not >> use chipsets which combine main processor + baseband in one - like >> Qualcom Snapdragon etc. The mode will be a separate part with >> defined electrical interfaces (like USB + UART) and no direct >> access to main CPU peripherals. > I wouldn't contribute to a project where core design features are still > in the "like" stage, Nobody asked you to contribute to the development of the Librem5, I asked you to stop from deliberatley spreading lies. > real modem isolation is a core feature for any > secure phone and it isn't easily obtained. The key question is still unanswered: where did you get that the Librem5 is going to have the baseband unit and CPU glued together, contrary to what Purism engineers stated? > If they somehow come up with real modem isolation then I will be pleased > and recommend people buy the phone otherwise I default to their track > record of promising the world and not delivering it. This does not justify your stating falseness. > I want real technical details of how they achieve modem isolation until > then I am very, very skeptical of their claims. So, you do not know what the Librem5 is going to be like. Yet this does not stop you from writing lies: "their phone is yet another example of faux-freedom hardware like their laptops". The Librem5 present development boards are based on the i.MX6, the final product will have a i.MX8. Neither processor has a built-in modem od WiFi unit, unlike most current phone SoC. > Simply using a non-DMA > interface doesn't provide real isolation (see the BadUSB attacks) Where did you read the Librem5 uses "a non-DMA interface", "doesn't provide real isolation" and suffers from "the BadUSB attacks"? Or, are you spreading FUD once again? >> We will also implement some form a hardware >> kill switch, i.e. a switch to disconnect the modem from the main >> system so that users can be sure that the modem is a) not powered >> anymore and b) there is not data flow from main processor to/from >> the modem. >> >> A two-minute fact-checking would have spared you yet another occasion at >> proving yourself an asshole. But since you're not interested in facts but >> just on leading a smearing campaign from an anonymous account, there you >> go. > The problem >>>> How could one accept your Talos' obsessive advertizing >>> I have a lot of free time with nothing better to do than to provide free >>> information and help people get the best stuff for their money as others >>> did for me - I don't get paid for anything as not everyone is a paid >>> shill. >> Not everyone, right, but you are indeed. A shill, I mean. You probably >> are too stupid to get paid for your services. > Honestly man whats your problem? Why do you hate me so much and resort > to name calling? You know very well what I am blaming you for. I stated it several times, yet you keep eschewing the core points and never stop from spreading lies and FUD. >>> By those same standards I also work for lenovo, asus (my also "obsessive >>> advertising" of the last and best x86 choices) and several arms of the >>> federal government (my telling people they should take amtrak as it is >>> much nicer than the bus and of course my defense of the CIA's spying >>> programs) >> In this ML you only keep exalting the qualities of Talos' products, >> nothing else. > I recommend all the owner controlled devices that are currently > available with the KGPE-D16 being my usual recommendation. That's a server motherboard. What does it have to do with Purism's products, that is laptops, tablets and smartphones? [...] >>> I am only one person who is going up against companies with million >>> dollar marketing departments and I don't see why people like you and so >>> many others are so intent on shutting down protest and constructive >>> criticis. >> Because you are not protesting and you are not producing constructive >> criticism. You are just spreading lies and misinformation. > What lies? what mis-information? From: "taii...@gmx.com" <taii...@gmx.com> Message-ID: <99039ffa-60cd-8928-8a72-2e8a002a5...@gmx.com> Date: Fri, 4 May 2018 17:29:24 -0400 "Purism is a very dishonest company and their phone is yet another example of faux-freedom hardware like their laptops, they do absolutely nothing to address the real issues like the baseband problem." >> [...] >>> The thing is that they are not doing their best and the problems are not >>> minor details. >> They are actually at the forefront at providing the most libre current >> Intel hardware > There is nothing libre about any of their products, the hardware > initiation is entirely blobbed, Correct. > EC blobbed, Correct. > ME still needs its blob. Wrong, it does not find it and disables itself. Let me quote it yet once more: https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-management-engine/ ME: FW Partition Table : BAD; ME: Bringup Loader Failure : YES [...] >>> There are various other companies selling actually libre hardware >> Not libre smartphones, not laptops based on current Intel hardware that a >> lot of professionals cannot do without. > Of course, but I simply mention that it is possible. Disparaging through lies and FUD the only producer of (partially) free systems based on current Intel hardware? [...] >>> Right now I am playing the DRM free Witcher 3 at max settings on my blob >>> free KGPE-D16 >> Can this motherboard be fitted inside a laptop or a smartphone? :-) > Nah but he was talking about libre systems in general. > My point is that it is in fact possible to produce something completely > free right away not some vague time in the future. If you're talking of desktops and servers then you have no grounds against Purism. [...] >> And, once more, how can you compare this against a smartphone that is >> still on the drawing board? >> >> https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-5/ >> >> Since we are not building yet-another Qualcomm SOC based phone, >> but starting from scratch, we are working to narrow down all the design >> choices and fabrication partners in the coming months. >> >>> The "purists" have again refused to accept input from the community >> They do, like when they listened to the community's objections and took >> off Nvidia GPUs from their laptops. > Myself and many others have time and again insisted they change their > marketing to be honest and transparent but they haven't, they continue > to call their products "libre" and claim they have "open source > firmware" which they don't. They are, they fully documented what is free and what is not: https://puri.sm/posts/deep-dive-into-intel-me-disablement/ The two approaches are similar in that they both stop the execution of the ME during the hardware initialization (BUP) phase, but with the ME disabled through the HAP method, the ME stops on its own, without putting up a fight, potentially disabling things that the forceful “me_cleaner” approach, with the “unexpected error” state, wouldn’t have disabled. The PCI interface for example, is entirely unable to communicate with the ME processor, and the status of the ME is not even retrievable. ... for Skylake, here is the list of modules in a regular ME 11.0.x firmware: -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 184320 Aug 29 16:33 bup.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 36864 Aug 29 16:33 busdrv.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 32768 Aug 29 16:33 cls.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 163840 Aug 29 16:33 crypto.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 389120 Aug 29 16:33 dal_ivm.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 24576 Aug 29 16:33 dal_lnch.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 49152 Aug 29 16:33 dal_sdm.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 evtdisp.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 fpf.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 45056 Aug 29 16:33 fwupdate.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 gpio.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 8192 Aug 29 16:33 hci.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 36864 Aug 29 16:33 heci.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 hotham.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 icc.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 ipc_drv.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 11832 Aug 29 16:33 ish_bup.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 24576 Aug 29 16:33 ish_srv.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 73728 Aug 29 16:33 kernel.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 loadmgr.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 maestro.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 mca_boot.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 24576 Aug 29 16:33 mca_srv.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 36864 Aug 29 16:33 mctp.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 32768 Aug 29 16:33 nfc.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 409600 Aug 29 16:33 pavp.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 pmdrv.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 24576 Aug 29 16:33 pm.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 61440 Aug 29 16:33 policy.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 12288 Aug 29 16:33 prtc.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 167936 Aug 29 16:33 ptt.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 rbe.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 12288 Aug 29 16:33 rosm.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 49152 Aug 29 16:33 sensor.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 110592 Aug 29 16:33 sigma.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 20480 Aug 29 16:33 smbus.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 36864 Aug 29 16:33 storage.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 8192 Aug 29 16:33 syncman.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 94208 Aug 29 16:33 syslib.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Aug 29 16:33 tcb.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 28672 Aug 29 16:33 touch_fw.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 12288 Aug 29 16:33 vdm.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 98304 Aug 29 16:33 vfs.mod And here is the list of modules in a neutered ME : -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 184320 Oct 4 16:21 bup.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 73728 Oct 4 16:21 kernel.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 16384 Oct 4 16:21 rbe.mod -rw-r--r-- 1 kakaroto kakaroto 94208 Oct 4 16:21 syslib.mod The long post is very detailed on what is still in place and why and what it's supposed to do. >>> Hardware kill switches are pointless with an un-accountable blobbed >>> baseband firmware which can easily be recording your location, audio, >>> etc without you knowing and storing it for later transmission. >> https://puri.sm/posts/librem5-progress-report-5/ >> >> The options are further limited by our requirement not to include >> any proprietary firmware on our host CPU (which we wrote about >> before): most fabricators are unfamiliar with i.MX 6 or i.MX 8 and >> do not want to risk a development based on it, which narrows our >> hardware design and manufacturing partners to a much smaller >> list. > The baseband and the main CPU are two different pieces of hardware, even > on an SOC they use different firmware. And of course you know what baseband Librem5 is going to use and you know it' going to have proprietary firmware, right? How do you know that? >>> I have no issue with purism selling what they are selling, my problem >>> has and will continue to be only with their dishonest marketing. >> Which exists only in the falsities you keep spreading around in >> thoroughly OT posts. Keep your smear campaigns away from this list, >> please. > So purism finally open sourced intel FSP, ME and the EC firmware huh? > hence their claim of "open source firmware"? They published what they developed and documented what they removed or disabled of Intel's ME. _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list Dng@lists.dyne.org https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
