On 19.01.18 17:34, KatolaZ wrote: > On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 06:03:59PM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote: > > But wether that session is local or not is, in my opinion, and as I > > already said, futile; and it seems to be mostly used as a justification to > > develop a tangle of daemons and middleware to bypass the traditional unix > > security framework. > > This is where I get totally lost with sessions: why on Earth should I > be able to mount an external device on a remote host to which I login > via SSH? Or unable to do that, if I am a regular user of that machine? > What is the use case for this madness? Does it really solve a problem, > or is just the usual non-working and useless solution to a problem > that doesn't even exist? > > I am sure I must be missing something here...
Yes, the Poettering Syndrome, but nothing else. If a device needs to be mounted on another host, then the *nix way is to log in there via ssh or similar. (Heck, 30 years ago we used rlogin, before security became an issue. I even remember having root trusted from my host to the others.) If we replicate all debian architecture, then we remain Poetteringed, and are doomed to suffer the distasteful consequences of poor design. On 19.01.18 14:29, Rick Moen wrote: > Quoting Arnt Karlsen ([email protected]): > > > ..so a good way forward is, treat this policykit/consolekit/logind > > etc thing like systemd, pulseaudio etc poetterware. ... > Why does PolicyKit want to have itself in charge of all user > permissions, including that of the root user? Because the > Freedesktop.org coders decided to override user/groups permissions and > put themselves in charge via PAM links. And then PolicyKit > (policykit-1) requires the rest of the marching band. > The only real solution is to do without the Freedesktop.org 'stack' and > give GNOME the heave-ho. Devuan appears unwiling to take that step so > far, therefore here you are, adopting Gentoo's systemd-logind forked > code (which is what elogind is). +1000 After 30 years in embedded systems design, I remain convinced that the path to a good design is to add simplicity. The converse does not serve the user at all well. When finished with taking out everything that can be removed without losing essential functions, the design is complete. The primary attribute of a good desktop is to come up fast. Gnome fails the test. And its tentacles are a problem, not an asset. On 19.01.18 23:36, KatolaZ wrote: > BTW, GNOME will most probably not work anyway without systemd, and I > haven't seen many GNOME fans around here anyway, so GNOME has > effectively been given the heave-ho so far... Oh-Oh, if gnome is dependent on systemd, then it is by definition excluded from Devuan, IIUC? That is without doubt another plus for Devuan. Now we just need to dump polycykit and elogind, for another step toward an elegant clean distro. The Devuan policykit could perhaps be a text file something like: "Linux at heart. No systemd, its dependencies, or ancilliary cruft." Erik _______________________________________________ Dng mailing list [email protected] https://mailinglists.dyne.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dng
