Hi Tom -- It really sucks that when I say "if you have feedback please send it over here", you hear "I'm not listening".
I'm sorry, but I don't have the mental bandwidth to follow 20,000 individual tickets. It's impossible. I just fucking can't do it. Believe me, I've tried, and failed, many times. I'm sorry I'm such a slacker. I *do* have the bandwidth to follow a single mailing list. If you want my attention, that's how you get it. If you really want to help, if you really want to get a positive outcome from this, then how about you give me a hand and follow (part of) Trac for me? Watch some tickets, and if/when they get stalled bring them here. Jacob On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:13 AM, Tom Evans <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 3:51 AM, Russell Keith-Magee > <[email protected]> wrote: >> My apologies if I wasn't clear - that wasn't what I was saying at all. What >> I meant is that we can't institute a process like "Every core developer must >> spend 4 hours per week triaging tickets or they will lose their core >> developer status". This would be a completely reasonable course of action if >> you were a paid employee -- your employer is just telling you what you have >> to do to get paid -- but that dynamic doesn't exist in a volunteer project. >> In a volunteer project the only reason the "hard" stuff gets done is because >> people volunteer to do it. >> >> However, in this case, Jacob *did* give a detailed explanation: >> >> "This seems like a needless function; it's already possible to just >> re-look-up the object from the database." >> >> It was rejected because the need wasn't clear. Simon then reopened the >> ticket, and gave a detailed use case, to which Jacob responded: >> >> "I'm really not convinced by Simon's use case -- adding "reload()" only >> saves you a single line of code. Let's do our best to keep Django as svelte >> as possible." >> >> What more detail should Jacob have provided? The feature isn't that complex. >> It's not like he's got an opportunity to present a PhD thesis in relational >> algebra. It's a simple feature, which has been rejected because in Jacob's >> opinion, it can be achieved in other ways. >> >> Jacob didn't explicitly call for a discussion on the mailing list. Perhaps >> he should have. However, when the ticket was reopened for the second time, >> James Bennett (ubernostrum) pointed at project policy to have these >> discussions on the mailing list. >> >> What should James have done instead? >> > > Perhaps the issue is that there is a feeling that no-one is listening > to the community? This particular issue was shot down because a core > dev didn't like the style of the change. They felt that adding a > function to be explicit about reloading an object is wrong since it > bloats django. > > This was decided 5 years ago, communicated in a single line. Any > attempt by the community to say "wait a minute, I'd really like this" > gets shot down and told to bring it here, or worse. 3 days ago, the > response was "If you want it, you have to make it happen." > > Perhaps this wasn't clear, that was a member of your community trying > to make it happen. There have been several attempts over the past 5 > years by people trying to make it happen. Each time someone has tried > to make it happen, after the initial attempt, the ticket has been > re-closed "BFDL already said no, just go away". > > In this case, happy days, a few hours of discussion on the ML, and > this ticket is now accepted. You need to understand that not all of > your users are comfortable or capable of advocating on mailing lists, > but are happy to contribute to tickets. With this ticket, 5 years of > asking for this feature on the ticket was pointless, and this is what > the OP is railing against. You gave people a way to contribute, but > then ignore them. Perhaps "ML or GTFO" if not the right approach for > attracting contributors. > > Cheers > > Tom > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Django developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Django developers" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/django-developers?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
