Thanks for the update, Rich. I agree 100% with you. We can work towards recommending some options, but in the end, each project has its own context.
As an example, Kevin showed a nice case where it was adopted *a 'welcome list*' and *'block list*' in order to kept backward compatibility in their context. As opposed to the *'welcome/block*', CloudStack was already adopting *'allow/block'* for a while at some points and now we are normalizing it all to use only 'alow/block'. >From what I have seen there is also a need for some sort of pattern; I have seen people arguing that such changes would not make sense as there is no pattern or guideline to be followed, as if we need to have a consensus in the IT industry (or some entity such as ASF) before moving on with such changes. It is quite necessary to "recommend" but important to not "impose". Regards Em ter., 18 de mai. de 2021 às 14:30, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> escreveu: > > > On 5/18/21 12:59 PM, Katia Rojas wrote: > > Hello Rich, > > > > Thank you for bringing this up to the group. Yes, it would be great if > you > > could share with us your experiences and progress. A blog post or a > > dedicated page to centralize those efforts would be ideal so others with > > the same questions could gain from your experience and work. > > I would be glad to do that. > > That said ... it's important to present this information in such a way > that it is clear that we are saying "Here's what some of our projects > are doing" rather than "Here's what you must do." Or, even worse, > calling out projects that have not made this a priority as being somehow > bad. > > Not all of our projects are receptive to these changes, and however we > might feel about it on this list, that's their decision to make, not one > to be handed down from a President's working group. It's a delicate > balance to strike between encouraging them to make a change, and making > it a mandate from on high. > > > > We could use confluence for this initiative. Let me find a good place in > > confluence and I send you the links. Also, you can join us on one of our > > D&I biweekly calls to discuss this topic, we always take meeting notes. > > I was not aware of the biweekly calls. Can you provide more detail, please? > > > > On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 17:31, Rich Bowen <rbo...@rcbowen.com> wrote: > > > >> I noted in the Diversity board report the following comment with regard > >> to this topic: > >> > >> "we don't have resources (people) to work on it." > >> > >> I thought it worth mentioning that, with my work hat on, I have, in > >> fact, been working this issue, and have contacted a number of Apache > >> projects to discuss this topic, over the past few months. > >> > >> In particular, I have talked with: > >> > >> * Tomcat > >> * ActiveMQ > >> * Karaf > >> * Camel > >> * CXF > >> * Kafka > >> * ServiceMix > >> > >> (Some of these were on-list, others were conversations with > individuals.) > >> > >> And I have become aware of other projects (like Cloudstack, below) that > >> are making these efforts also. > >> > >> I have, of course, had mixed results. But it's important to remember > >> that while some changes are as easy as `sed "s/master/primary/g"`, > >> others require deprecation cycles, coordination with > >> upstream/downstream/dependency projects, and may take years. Starting > >> the conversation is the important thing. > >> > >> I would be glad to write some things around these topics - indeed, I'm > >> already writing a bunch of things for https://inclusivenaming.org/ as > >> well as the internal Red Hat effort and my personal blog. > >> > >> Setting replacement *policy* has proven unproductive, elsewhere, because > >> context matters. Telling everyone to replace "slave" with "replica" (or > >> whatever) won't work, because every project has different needs, and the > >> point of all of this is to choose the *right* word, not just do a blind > >> search/replace. > >> > >> > >> On 5/4/21 9:15 AM, Gabriel Beims Bräscher wrote: > >>> Hello all @diversity, > >>> > >>> We have been seeing movements on projects changing the use of some > terms. > >>> > >>> Some of these recent changes have been addressing the "master" branch > and > >>> also replacing "black/white-list" for options such as > "allow/deny-list". > >>> Recently we, at CloudStack, started to move towards the same direction; > >>> however, there have been some discussions regarding which name to > choose, > >>> as well as if there is any position from the Apache Software Foundation > >> of > >>> such changes. > >>> > >>> I am raising this regarding the recent discussions on the Apache > >> CloudStack > >>> project on renaming the master branch. You can find the mails linked > >> bellow: > >>> > >>> 1. [Discuss] thread: > >>> > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd7df8d0fc813c47fda6640970c3fb7c065a08fff05c42f367ae8efbc%40%3Cdev.cloudstack.apache.org%3E > >>> 2. [Vote] thread: > >>> > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r7d7a1a7ea82bd2058e2f8634cffec75bcce585b591ee2a5709fd35d0%40%3Cdev.cloudstack.apache.org%3E > >>> > >>> Is thre any guideline or plan to create one that recommends/guides > >> projects > >>> on adopting inclusive words? > >>> If not, how we could contribute in order to stablish one? > >>> > >>> I would also like to know if this e-mail would fit on the ASF board > >> Mailing > >>> list, I thought first on bringing this to the diversity@apache. > >>> > >>> I appreciate any feedback. > >>> > >>> Best Regards, > >>> > >> > >> -- > >> Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com > >> @rbowen > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > >> > >> > > > > -- > Rich Bowen - rbo...@rcbowen.com > @rbowen > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > > -- Gabriel Beims Bräscher Apache CloudStack PMC Chair (CloudStack VP) The Apache Software Foundation https://www.apache.org/ https://cloudstack.apache.org/
