On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Allan Irving <allanirv...@allanirving.co.uk > wrote:
> Please respond with your interpretation as to why email beats Slack In my case, I don't have experience with Slack, Without that experience, here's my concern: I don't have a separate email client I use for LOPSA; rather, LOPSA traffic is something that crosses the rest of the traffic in my email stream. While I know you can manage multiple Slack instances, I don't have any other places where Slack is used, so now LOPSA would require being promoted to a first-class attention space -- if I want to interact with LOPSA, and the only venue it offers is Slack (I know that this isn't necessarily what's being proposed; hang on...), I have to fire up a separate attention stream just for LOPSA. Frankly, the amount of information in the LOPSA lists these days doesn't warrant that level of attention from me. So, I can keep up with LOPSA if it's a few more bits in an existing attention channel, but, if I have to start a whole separate attention channel just for LOPSA, I probably won't. This would be completely different if I were using Slack day-to-day already. I'll also note that my frame of reference is possibly different from that of others here -- I travel a lot, have a lot of meetings, and don't generally have a sessile workstation where I work for most of the day. (I'll finally comment that I just stumbled on this thread after having been away from it for a week or so, and I'm appalled -- the discussion is unfocused, and the tone is downright uncivil. I'm trying to contribute one constructive thing here, but, honestly, this makes me shy away from this list entirely.) On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Allan Irving <allanirv...@allanirving.co.uk > wrote: > Not being aware there was an IRC channel, I presumed that Slack would > create that bridge. However, if there’s already IRC and mailing lists then > yes, there is little point to use Slack. > > Again - I really wish you would stop being pathetic with the ‘cooler’ > element. I have not at any point said it was cooler. I just saw it as more > functional. > > I’ve tried to explain the benefits but you are containing to ignore those > and just seem to have taken the perspective that I think Slack is ‘cooler’ > and you don’t. If that was the case, I’d list at least ten ‘cool’ > applications like Slack. > > I proposed Slack due to the immediacy and speed at which messages can be > responded to. Not everyone checks their emails every five minutes and from > my experience, people tend to overlook emails until which point as they can > be bothered to reply to them. You must remember that not everyone does use > email as much as yourself - and you are not the only person who matters in > the world - that is why I asked the question. To gauge whether others > agreed it was or wasn’t a bad idea. > > I mentioned trialling as opposed to just shutting everything down and what > not. It was not ‘let’s get rid of your mailing list’ but a suggestion more > along the lines of ‘why not give it a go and see how it works out’. > > Taking one stance is fine but that is not what I proposed. I did not say > destroy the mailing lists. I proposed giving something else a go to see how > it works out. > > Functionally, I do believe that has already been addressed but seeing as > you are so adamant - let me make it very clear. > > - Slack is multiplatform and integrates with everything. So does email. > However, Slack is a quicker way to communicate - email is not. Slack allows > for more discussion / in depth / a proper conversation. Email really does > not create conversations in the same way. Equally, Slack allows multi > channels much like signing up to different mailing lists but does this more > intuitively and it’s easier as opposed to signing up and verifying. > Equally, younger generations do not use mailing lists as much as others. > This is why many projects such as London Startups use a Facebook group - > and not a mailing list. > > - Slack allows for controlling who does and doesn’t join a channel and > also allows people to direct each other, whereas with email you have to > email them personally as opposed to a list which many may not want to do > feeling they are encroaching on someone’s personal email. > > - Email certainly does not have the same flow that Slack or IRC can > produce in that it is not as fast. You can easily see what someone else has > said before you reply in one whereas sending this email now, by the time > I’ve sent it likely another reply has already been made. > > - Slack allows you to search in one place. Unless you have filtering rules > - you’re searching your whole inbox or reading through every message to > find what you want. Some of us get so many emails and archive them so this > is not as effective when searching your mailbox. > > - Slack has integrations. They work. Just like that. No clicking on links > and what not. It’s quicker - it’s there and it works. There are so many > integrations they’re not worth listing - from Dropbox to Github to RSS for > Lopsa updates, for example. Code can be placed within it, something which > can take LOPSA to a more technical level of support. In all the time I have > frequented the list, I’ve never really seen help in terms of technical > code. A lot more can be done in one place, using one client that helps > LOPSA work in one place as opposed to several places / clients / > applications that people just don’t have the time to use. > > - I do not agree that mailing lists are the best way to exchange > information and do hold the belief that even IRC is far more effective. > Mailing lists by their nature have always been long discussions. If someone > wants to ask a quick question, they likely aren’t going to go to all the > effort of sending an email to ask it whereas it could be answered within > seconds using Slack. > > - In terms of managing different types of information, Slack integrates > this fine. It is far easier to hear about what you want to as opposed to > having to read email by email to gauge if you care. You can just scroll up > or see a specific topic and or channel. > > - Slack is not open source but this is not the FSF. I do not see what > difference that makes. Office 365 isn’t FOSS either but is still widely > used. I only see this as a hindrance in terms of a FOSS debate, not in > practical terms. > > Cat, you’re actually being very rude now. I understand you have a > different point of view but there is no need to be condescending. That’s > half the problem with email - sometimes you’re too busy and people talk far > too much on it and a lot of what is said is often either missed or wasn’t > worth saying. > > I don’t get paid to participate on this list and neither does anyone else. > It was my understanding this was to help others out and share information - > not be rude and arrogant for no reason. It was a SUGGESTION. I did not > FORCE anyone to accept it or not. That is why I asked. Your responses have > done little more than make sarcastic remarks and try to pick holes for no > reason. > > Please respond with your interpretation as to why email beats Slack or > don’t bother. I’ve seen very little from yourself regarding why you’re oh’ > so correct and no one else is. Chan mindset comes to mind. > > It really doesn’t make a big difference to me in real terms as it doesn’t > affect anything I really do on a daily basis. I just thought it might be > something LOPSA could benefit from - what is so criminal about this? > > If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. Nobody gets it right all the time but that > doesn’t mean your attitude has to be what it is. You haven’t really added > anything to the conversation but taken it off topic at tangents and at the > same time been rude. I don’t recall you having ever proposed anything to > maybe better LOPSA. It was worth a try / I wasn’t expecting a positive > reaction necessarily - but I was not expecting someone to do little more > than troll. Not looking for an argument over a mailing list as I quite > frankly, have better things to do whereas you may not. > > If you’re not going to constructively contribute, don’t. You’re just > wasting your time, my time and everyone else’s. > > Cheers! > > > > > > On 13 Jul 2015, at 14:07, Allan Irving <allanirv...@allanirving.co.uk> > wrote: > > > > I wasn’t aware there was an IRC channel so that does change everything. > > > > > >> On 13 Jul 2015, at 14:00, Warner <w...@projectgamma.com> wrote: > >> > >> To be fair, Slack would replace IRC if anything. The mailing list serves > >> as a separate and complementary purpose. > >> > >> I suspect Allan may not have been aware of or participated on the IRC > >> channel. > >> > >> Apples, oranges -- all that. > >> > >> > >> > >> Warner > >> > >> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 08:50:53AM -0400, Allan West(al...@cookie.org) > wrote: > >>> On 2015/07/12 04:58, Allan Irving wrote: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> How do we feel about trailing Slack instead of discussion lists? I am > of the belief that it would be far better and also has more features than > email. > >>>> > >>>> http://slack.realm.io is an example of how easy it is for users to > sign up - much like Mailman offers a sign up screen. > >>>> > >>>> Allan > >>> > >>> I have to use email every day, therefore I prefer to get information > >>> through email. The cool toy of the week (usenet, gopher, AOL, web, IRC, > >>> MySpace Twitter, Facebook, whatever) comes and goes, but mailing list > >>> messages always gets to me. > >>> > >>> I don't have time to pull data (i.e. "follow") on any regular basis. > >>> Unless you can push to me, I'll never hear you. > >>> > >>> But what do I know? I only unplugged my VCR this past weekend. >8^) > >>> (another) Allan > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Discuss mailing list > >> Discuss@lists.lopsa.org > >> https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > >> This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > >> http://lopsa.org/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Discuss mailing list > > Discuss@lists.lopsa.org > > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > > http://lopsa.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Discuss mailing list > Discuss@lists.lopsa.org > https://lists.lopsa.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/discuss > This list provided by the League of Professional System Administrators > http://lopsa.org/ >
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