Actually more like 2008.   I've never tried the tools you mention.  Probably 
should sometime.  Maybe a meeting could be a couple of people showing how they 
do their vm's.  My environment is simple.  Works great though.

Eric C

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:37 PM, Eric Chadbourne <eric.chadbou...@icloud.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> True Debian doesn't "provide" VirtualBox but it's trivial to install.  Been 
> working great for me since at least 2005.  
> 
> Eric C
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 3:19 PM, Edward <e...@sillydog.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Debian does not provide VirtualBox. They only offer virt-manager and Gnome 
>> Boxes.
>> 
>> The system basically wants to install most (if not all) of the same 
>> dependencies for Gnome Boxes, that it did for virt-manager. When I was using 
>> Fedora, Jerry told me about Gnome Boxes and I found it very easy to use. But 
>> given my experience with virt-manager, I would expect the same issues if I 
>> tried Gnome Boxes.
>> 
>> I went with PCLOS' Community LXQt image because I'm used to that desktop and 
>> it's lightweight, wasn't expecting any issues running/installing it in a VM.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 10/25/21 14:55, Eric Chadbourne wrote:
>>> As an alternative I use Virtualbox at home.  Works great.  Zero complaints. 
>>>  I use Vagrant on occasion to control programmatically.
>>> 
>>> I started with Virtualbox years ago as it supported older CPUs.  I think 
>>> somebody on this list turned me on to it.
>>> 
>>> Hope that helps.
>>> 
>>> Eric C
>>> 
>>> Chadbourne.Consulting
>>> 
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 2:44 PM, Edward <e...@sillydog.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> After realizing that I forgot to add the relevant USB hardware to the VM, 
>>>> I deleted it, as they could be not added after the fact.
>>>> 
>>>> Upon attempting to recreate it with the USB hardware added in, all 
>>>> attempts were unsuccessful. virt-manager wants the name of the distro 
>>>> during the creation of the VM. Since the name of the distro (PCLinuxOS) 
>>>> was not in the database, I tried all four of the 'Generic' entries, the 
>>>> latest Mandriva (EOL) entry (2011) since the distro was originally based 
>>>> on Mandriva), Clear Linux, Arch Linux and finally Ubuntu.
>>>> 
>>>> None of these would boot the image into a usable live desktop to which the 
>>>> OS could then be installed. The image either crashed within the VM, it 
>>>> froze on the screen to select the keyboard, or IF the desktop appeared, 
>>>> once a second Network Manager applet icon appeared, the video server 
>>>> crashes and reboots the desktop, repeatedly. The only way to exit was to 
>>>> use virt-manager's Force Off option.
>>>> 
>>>> So I have reached the conclusion, that, in a home environment, a VM serves 
>>>> no useful purpose and is quite frankly, a waste of time, IMHO.
>> 
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