----- Original Message ----- > From: "Przemek Klosowski" <przemek.klosow...@nist.gov> > To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Sent: Thursday, April 9, 2015 5:01:19 PM > Subject: Re: dnf replacing yum and dnf-yum
> On 04/08/2015 02:32 AM, Jan Zelený wrote > > I'm afraid not. From the very beginning, we were sending a clear message > > that > > > we will be as compatible as possible in terms of CLI but we never wanted to > > > have just another yum. If that was the case, we wouldn't call the project > > > differently. > > I am concerned that the yum-to-dnf transition is confusing, because of this > mixed message. On one hand, they are just two package management tools: on a > high level, they do a simple, well defined job of updating your system to > the latest version of available packages. In an ideal world it just wouldn't > matter which one you use, and from that point of view the name change is > superfluous: all you need to do is 'yum update', and calling it 'dnf update' > is just a tiny annoyance that is not bothersome enough to be worth bothering > about. > We are not living in an ideal world, however, and the updating problem is > complex enough so that yum ecosystem is not handling it well. You are making > an argument that dnf reimplemented this ecosystem in a qualitatively > different, more correct way, that is so different that it merits a clean > break, justifying the project name change. I am fine with that, but this > leads to confusion when there are observable changes in behavior. The > implication is that dnf is better and more correct, but on the other hand > it's clear that dnf is still in development and exhibits faults. So, now we > have a problem: if dnf behaves differently from yum, is it an improvement or > a regression? We don't know, and it's not clear to me how to tell; every > divergence is a potential bug in dnf, and therefore should be reported as > such. > I would venture a comment that it was a mistake to declare dnf a separate > project, because it leads to a different approach to such differences. If it > was an evolutionary change in yum, it would be natural to expect it to > behave in a compatible way, and consequently detect and explain in more > detail the divergent behavior. By declaring a clean break, you are basically > saying that there is no need to explain the diffs, but the flip side of it > is that unless I can clearly understand why the difference is for the > better, I must suspect this to be a regression and report it. > As a result, dnf will have a huge bug load that is hard to work with because > it depends on a specific state of the repositories at that specific moment > in time. Do you have a capability to investigate such problems? Yes, we have. "dnf --debugsolver" helps us a lot. > Here's a specific one, a firefox update from this morning that shows up in > yum but not in dnf. I will submit it to bugzilla, just to see where we go > with that. > # dnf update firefox > Using metadata from Fri Apr 3 03:24:08 2015 > Dependencies resolved. > Nothing to do. > # yum update firefox > Loaded plugins: auto-update-debuginfo, langpacks > Resolving Dependencies > --> Running transaction check > ---> Package firefox.x86_64 0:37.0-2.fc21 will be updated > ---> Package firefox.x86_64 0:37.0.1-1.fc21 will be an update > --> Finished Dependency Resolution > # dnf info firefox > Using metadata from Fri Apr 3 03:24:08 2015 > Installed Packages > Name : firefox > Arch : x86_64 > Epoch : 0 > Version : 37.0 > Release : 2.fc21 > ... > # yum info firefox > Loaded plugins: auto-update-debuginfo, langpacks > Installed Packages > Name : firefox > Arch : x86_64 > Version : 37.0 > Release : 2.fc21 > ... > Available Packages > Name : firefox > Arch : x86_64 > Version : 37.0.1 > Release : 1.fc21 > Size : 69 M > Repo : updates/21/x86_64 > ... > -- > devel mailing list > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct -- Radek Holý Associate Software Engineer Software Management Team Red Hat Czech
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