Hello Pavel, Thank you for your thoughts. It strikes me that perhaps what you're advising me to do, is likely what I was wanting to do in the first place. I certainly don't feel dissatisfied being a non-packager in Fedora land, and I am probably a bit guilty of exageration of the difficulties on the road to becoming a packager. Honestly, I am looking forward to setting up to do some testing for now. Thanks to everyone for taking the time to offer me the options available to become a packager, this is indeed a good part of why I enjoy being part of the community that is Fedora.
Regards, Stephen On Mon, 2021-08-16 at 19:59 +0200, Pavel Valena wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 1:38 PM Stephen Snow <s40...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Hello Dan, > > Thank you for reaching out with your response. I have to admit, I > > was > > in a provocotive mood the other day. I had solved a problem for a > > customer that had been worked on unsuccessfully by a local > > competitor > > for three weeks. I was at that moment the master of my trade craft > > and > > in fully glory. I bought some beer to celebrate and the resulting > > email > > came out. So that is not to say I wasn't at least venting some > > portion > > of truth. Please bear with me as I have spent 6 decades walking > > upright, and sometimes I find laying the foundation of a > > conversation > > requires preparation. > > I have built RPM's and SRPM's according to RedHat specifications, I > > think using their tutorials. I have also built an unoffical flatpak > > of > > the IntelliJ IDE IDEA. So as for technical capability, I can read a > > manual as well as the next person. > > My thoughts were that the sponsoring, the proven packagers were > > supposed to be package mentors I thought originally, shouldn't > > happen > > until after sign up, and sign up is preconditioned by a basic CBT > > course with "build an RPM" test as final progression criteria for > > getting to ask for a sponsor. Not something inhibiting but just > > build a > > simple RPM to cover tha basic process. My reasoning is the process > > for > > getting onboarded should, like accepting a resume or CV from anyone > > at > > anytime, be an open door. In order to capatilize on numbers > > certainly > > but also to encourage the real potential individuals who can > > contribute > > technically, but are severely hampered by initial barriers. Even if > > the > > barriers are only perceived ones. The initial CBT I mentioned would > > be > > a way for someone like that to get a "free test". A sort of > > confidence > > boost that takes nothing but their time, and allows them to show > > they > > can do that part. Also, if they have difficulties doing a simple > > RPM, > > they could take some time to get that going and come back to try > > again. > > All of this can happen without the need for a sponsor getting > > involved > > until a minimum level of capability is ascertained, which should > > offload some time (for sponsors), though likely minimal I would > > guess. > > We could make it a badge. > > > > > Hello Stephen, > > I think this situation is very unfortunate and unintended. I think > you can do (or you can start doing it) what you came to do in Fedora, > without the "packager status". In general when you already have some > project / package in Fedora that you want to maintain, you can start > to work on it straight away, as a part of gaining your packager > status. That is, while receiving feedback /advice/ from sponsor. It's > a way to gain the actual skill to become a packager - I don't think > any robot/test can replace that. I don't think packaging is about > just doing builds, in a way "it works", but rather creating a good > spec file / good package that will last for years. > > Doing unofficial reviews for a package you want to get into Fedora, > or submitting a new package review request (if you want to get it to > Fedora), or re-review request (if you want to unorphan the package). > Creating PRs with an enhancement / or package upgrade. Last one you > can even do anonymously: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintenance_guide#Using_fedpkg_anonymously > > All of the above are IMO examples of what packager does. There's no > reason to do something else - you can just start straight away with > what you intend to do, and get a "packager" status later. Or is there > an obstacle that you packager status for, to do anything meaningful > for you? > > I really hope there's a path to achieve what you came to Fedora for. > If not, I'd argue it needs to be created. > > I don't think the idea of getting a packager status, just to get it > reverted some time later, wouldn't help you to become a (better) > packager. For all the best ways of collaboration (which is IMHO what > Fedora is all about) you don't need the packager status for. > > Regards, > Pavel > > > > > > > On Thu, 2021-08-12 at 19:58 +0000, Dan Čermák wrote: > > > I'd also like to plug Jakub's new sponsor page: > > > https://docs.pagure.org/fedora-sponsors/all > > > > > > There you can find all currently active sponsors by language, > > > interest, etc. > > > > > I like the work Jakub did on the sponsor page. This is a good way > > to > > present them. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Dan > > As for Eclipse in Fedora Linux, sadly I must say I left trying to > > get > > Eclipse going on Fedora Linux (Silverblue now) some time ago, in > > favour > > of doing what I needed in my home directory, including maven and > > graal, > > and using netbeans flatpak for IDE because it works. I don't blame > > Fedora Linux or the related packagers, the satate of Java can be > > fully > > blamed on the corporate entities involved at the heart of java. > > I think the packing group is doing the work, they are the ones who > > put > > together this thing we call Fedora Linux. > > > > As for myself, I have enjoyed the benefits of Fedora Linux for a > > very > > long time and appreciate the efforts daily. I would like to return > > more > > than appreciation to the community and that is my impetus for > > wanting > > to package. I think I will take Chris Murphy's advice and start > > with > > reviews for now, there is a rather long backlog it seems. > > > > > > Regards, > > Stephen > > > > > > On August 12, 2021 7:29:10 AM UTC, Felix Schwarz > > > <fschw...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > > > Hi Stephen, > > > > > > > > thank you for your interest in contributing to Fedora. I can > > > > totally understand > > > > that the current policies may seem overwhelming so that > > becoming a > > > > packager > > > > might be seen as some kind of "elite" status. > > > > I think I would feel the same way if I didn't become a packager > > ~10 > > > > years ago. > > > > > > > > However I would like to emphasize Ben's point: > > > > > I think becoming a packager is not as complicated as you’ve > > > > > written. To > > > > > become a packager, you must convince a packager sponsor to > > > > > sponsor you. > > > > > That’s all; there is no rule about how to do the convincing. > > > > > > > > Maybe you do 1-2 package updates or fixes (pull request via > > > > src.fedoraproject.org) and check the Fedora wiki pages for a > > list > > > > of sponsors. > > > > Try contacting some of them directly after you verified they > > are > > > > still active > > > > (mailing list/src.fedoraproject.org). Also it helps usually if > > > > these sponsors > > > > are interested in the languages/tech stack which you tried to > > > > improve. > > > > > > > > That being said: Java in Fedora is one of the hardest areas to > > > > tackle. Several > > > > "high profile" packagers had to give up on that task (despite > > > > heroic efforts) > > > > because it is just too much for one person (or a small team). > > > > > > > > Part of the problem is that the Java upstream "culture" does > > not > > > > matches the > > > > processes of a traditional Linux distribution like Fedora. Lots > > of > > > > bundled > > > > dependencies, "secret" build processes and on top a huge number > > of > > > > small packages. > > > > > > > > I can understand that "keeping Eclipse in Fedora" is a worthy > > goal > > > > for sure but > > > > really a lot of work. Other areas like Python packaging are > > much > > > > easier as > > > > applications tend to be smaller and bundling is less common in > > the > > > > Python world. > > > > (Also great efforts by our Python team!) > > > > > > > > > > > > One of the things I'd be interested in is "reprocible builds" > > which > > > > I think > > > > might be easier to contribute. While there is a lot of > > > > infrastructure to build > > > > (= a lot of work) you can also just fix one package at a time > > > > (probably with a > > > > few upstream commits). Even if you stop contributing to Fedora > > > > after some months > > > > or years you advanced the state of Fedora/Linux anyway. > > > > > > > > Felix > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > > devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > > List Guidelines: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > > List Archives: > > > > > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > > _______________________________________________ > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
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