On Fri, Aug 13, 2021 at 1:38 PM Stephen Snow <s40...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Dan, > Thank you for reaching out with your response. I have to admit, I was > in a provocotive mood the other day. I had solved a problem for a > customer that had been worked on unsuccessfully by a local competitor > for three weeks. I was at that moment the master of my trade craft and > in fully glory. I bought some beer to celebrate and the resulting email > came out. So that is not to say I wasn't at least venting some portion > of truth. Please bear with me as I have spent 6 decades walking > upright, and sometimes I find laying the foundation of a conversation > requires preparation. > I have built RPM's and SRPM's according to RedHat specifications, I > think using their tutorials. I have also built an unoffical flatpak of > the IntelliJ IDE IDEA. So as for technical capability, I can read a > manual as well as the next person. > My thoughts were that the sponsoring, the proven packagers were > supposed to be package mentors I thought originally, shouldn't happen > until after sign up, and sign up is preconditioned by a basic CBT > course with "build an RPM" test as final progression criteria for > getting to ask for a sponsor. Not something inhibiting but just build a > simple RPM to cover tha basic process. My reasoning is the process for > getting onboarded should, like accepting a resume or CV from anyone at > anytime, be an open door. In order to capatilize on numbers certainly > but also to encourage the real potential individuals who can contribute > technically, but are severely hampered by initial barriers. Even if the > barriers are only perceived ones. The initial CBT I mentioned would be > a way for someone like that to get a "free test". A sort of confidence > boost that takes nothing but their time, and allows them to show they > can do that part. Also, if they have difficulties doing a simple RPM, > they could take some time to get that going and come back to try again. > All of this can happen without the need for a sponsor getting involved > until a minimum level of capability is ascertained, which should > offload some time (for sponsors), though likely minimal I would guess. > We could make it a badge. > Hello Stephen, I think this situation is very unfortunate and unintended. I think you can do (or you can start doing it) what you came to do in Fedora, without the "packager status". In general when you already have some project / package in Fedora that you want to maintain, you can start to work on it straight away, as a part of gaining your packager status. That is, while receiving feedback /advice/ from sponsor. It's a way to gain the actual skill to become a packager - I don't think any robot/test can replace that. I don't think packaging is about just doing builds, in a way "it works", but rather creating a good spec file / good package that will last for years. Doing unofficial reviews for a package you want to get into Fedora, or submitting a new package review request (if you want to get it to Fedora), or re-review request (if you want to unorphan the package). Creating PRs with an enhancement / or package upgrade. Last one you can even do anonymously: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Package_maintenance_guide#Using_fedpkg_anonymously All of the above are IMO examples of what packager does. There's no reason to do something else - you can just start straight away with what you intend to do, and get a "packager" status later. Or is there an obstacle that you packager status for, to do anything meaningful for you? I really hope there's a path to achieve what you came to Fedora for. If not, I'd argue it needs to be created. I don't think the idea of getting a packager status, just to get it reverted some time later, wouldn't help you to become a (better) packager. For all the best ways of collaboration (which is IMHO what Fedora is all about) you don't need the packager status for. Regards, Pavel > > On Thu, 2021-08-12 at 19:58 +0000, Dan Čermák wrote: > > I'd also like to plug Jakub's new sponsor page: > > https://docs.pagure.org/fedora-sponsors/all > > > > There you can find all currently active sponsors by language, > > interest, etc. > > > I like the work Jakub did on the sponsor page. This is a good way to > present them. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Dan > As for Eclipse in Fedora Linux, sadly I must say I left trying to get > Eclipse going on Fedora Linux (Silverblue now) some time ago, in favour > of doing what I needed in my home directory, including maven and graal, > and using netbeans flatpak for IDE because it works. I don't blame > Fedora Linux or the related packagers, the satate of Java can be fully > blamed on the corporate entities involved at the heart of java. > I think the packing group is doing the work, they are the ones who put > together this thing we call Fedora Linux. > > As for myself, I have enjoyed the benefits of Fedora Linux for a very > long time and appreciate the efforts daily. I would like to return more > than appreciation to the community and that is my impetus for wanting > to package. I think I will take Chris Murphy's advice and start with > reviews for now, there is a rather long backlog it seems. > > > Regards, > Stephen > > > > On August 12, 2021 7:29:10 AM UTC, Felix Schwarz > > <fschw...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > > Hi Stephen, > > > > > > thank you for your interest in contributing to Fedora. I can > > > totally understand > > > that the current policies may seem overwhelming so that becoming a > > > packager > > > might be seen as some kind of "elite" status. > > > I think I would feel the same way if I didn't become a packager ~10 > > > years ago. > > > > > > However I would like to emphasize Ben's point: > > > > I think becoming a packager is not as complicated as you’ve > > > > written. To > > > > become a packager, you must convince a packager sponsor to > > > > sponsor you. > > > > That’s all; there is no rule about how to do the convincing. > > > > > > Maybe you do 1-2 package updates or fixes (pull request via > > > src.fedoraproject.org) and check the Fedora wiki pages for a list > > > of sponsors. > > > Try contacting some of them directly after you verified they are > > > still active > > > (mailing list/src.fedoraproject.org). Also it helps usually if > > > these sponsors > > > are interested in the languages/tech stack which you tried to > > > improve. > > > > > > That being said: Java in Fedora is one of the hardest areas to > > > tackle. Several > > > "high profile" packagers had to give up on that task (despite > > > heroic efforts) > > > because it is just too much for one person (or a small team). > > > > > > Part of the problem is that the Java upstream "culture" does not > > > matches the > > > processes of a traditional Linux distribution like Fedora. Lots of > > > bundled > > > dependencies, "secret" build processes and on top a huge number of > > > small packages. > > > > > > I can understand that "keeping Eclipse in Fedora" is a worthy goal > > > for sure but > > > really a lot of work. Other areas like Python packaging are much > > > easier as > > > applications tend to be smaller and bundling is less common in the > > > Python world. > > > (Also great efforts by our Python team!) > > > > > > > > > One of the things I'd be interested in is "reprocible builds" which > > > I think > > > might be easier to contribute. While there is a lot of > > > infrastructure to build > > > (= a lot of work) you can also just fix one package at a time > > > (probably with a > > > few upstream commits). Even if you stop contributing to Fedora > > > after some months > > > or years you advanced the state of Fedora/Linux anyway. > > > > > > Felix > > > _______________________________________________ > > > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > List Guidelines: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > List Archives: > > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure >
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