On 09/16/2014 02:37 AM, Markus Teich wrote:
M Farkas-Dyck wrote:
[1] http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
[2] http://gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/coders-c-plus-plus/
Heyho,
also relevant for the (non-)topic:
http://bartoszmilewski.com/2013/09/19/edward-chands/
--Markus
Thanks for that last link. I had read the first two.
I have been for the last several weeks (months) researching what
language I want to use to implement a couple of apps I want to do.
So I have this internal debate in me as to whether or not to learn C
and/or C++. One one hand I tend towards C. But for someone who has spent
the last 20 years using learning Python and Smalltalk. C looks pretty
primitive. C++ looks complicated. And C++ OOP does not look a thing like
Smalltalk OOP.
The sticky wicket in their for me is that I must connect to either C++
or Java libraries. One of my apps has a C wrapper around the C++
library. So any language that can connect to C can use this library. But
many of the required libraries I need to use are in C++.
So I explore using C++ and the apologetics for such sound nice. But I
still look at all the complexity. Then I look at C and its
primitiveness. (Or at least seemingly so from the outside.)
And neither natively provide the interactiveness of Python/Smalltalk.
Which is something I require. So I would need then to add either Python
or probably Lua into the equation.
I was about to go C++, but then did a little exploration into the
current state of Julia. And I've decided to go with Julia and C. Julia
for the high level part of the app and C when I need to optimize, do
something that Julia isn't able to do, or get closer to the machine.
I am not saying that Julia is suckless. I don't know what the suckless
opinion of Julia is. I am not 100% suckless. But I am tending toward
suckless but it is a battle with the software forces at work.
The reason I write, is that in my research for pros and cons of C verses
C++. Almost all of the anti-C++ writings are pre 2011 and therefore pre
C++11/C++14 and the coming C++17.
So as someone who knows neither C nor C++ sufficiently. And is
researching to make as qualified a decision as possible. The information
on how the newer C++ versions are viewed by the anti-C++ group.
I would love to see some people do some apologetics on why not C++ for
the current C++. So that people can make educated decision on the
current C verses the current C++.
Seeing how much C++ people complain about the C like stuff or the actual
C stuff in C++. Why don't they just grow a pair and clean out all the
stuff they complain about. Simplify the language and get on with it. As
it is, is seems as if is just growing and nothing gets removed. Only new
books saying don't use the old stuff. If you don't want it used then
remove it. Ugh!
My apologies for the mini-rant. And Hi! First time poster to suckless.
Thanks for having a group which fights against the current direction in
complexity in software.
Jimmie
