I am not surprised you’re doubling down on what everyone is objecting to you doing.
Thank you for admitting that you’re using your status as a PMC member for financial gain. On Dec 10, 2021 at 11:40:00 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Joshua, > > Thanks for your response. Please allow me to clarify. > > First, I completely agree with you that SN != Pulsar. Although, I am also a > bit wordless as to why you brought up such a salient point. In addition, I > don't have any experience participating in the Kafka community, therefore I > cannot opine on your assessment of the Kafka community. > > Second, there is no such thing as “inside access” because if you truly > understand the Apache Way, all the decisions are carried out publicly and > each PMC member can provide his/her thoughts. Then, the PMC can vote or > reject any proposals. ANYONE can discuss any ideas and propose any topics > with any PMC member regardless of where they work and bring the final > proposal to discuss in the mailing list. > > Third, I’d like to iterate the response I provided to Chris: the SN program > merely provides the opportunity for the participants to brainstorm ideas > with the PMC members who are currently working at SN. It is worth noticing > that the vast majority of the Pulsar PMC members do not even work for SN. > > Hope my responses clear things up a bit. Please Let me know if you have any > further questions. > > Thanks, > Sijie > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 8:16 PM Joshua Odmark <j...@pandio.com> wrote: > > I don’t think anyone is surprised that you, the CEO of SN, doesn’t see a > > problem with you conflating a program offered by your own commercial > > company, that in the exact same sentence, invites people to join a SN > > sponsored opportunity to work on the roadmap with the PMC. That is quite > > literally offering inside access through your commercial entity. You did it > > again in your response. > > > I understand how decisions are made in ASF and I couldn’t think less of SN. > > > It’s like me saying, I am good friends with the CEO of Ford Motor Company. > > If you want Ford Motor Company as a customer, you should join my Ford > > Ambassador Program. Ford would have a problem with that, and so should the > > PMC of Apache Pulsar. > > > This is exactly what Confluent started doing with the Kafka community. They > > did everything they could to make Confluent == Kafka. Great for Confluent, > > terrible for the community. > > > SN != Pulsar > > > On Dec 10, 2021 at 7:25:29 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Chris and Dave, > > > > > > Thank you for bringing the concern up. However, I don’t think the concern > > > of this tweet is valid, and also the complaint of “StreamNative controls > > > the roadmap” sounds ridiculous to me. > > > > > > First of all, under the Apache Way, PMC controls the roadmap. > > > > > > Lots of StreamNative team members are long-time ASF contributors. In > > > relation to adhering strictly to the ASF policy, we understand it very > > well > > > and we follow the Apache Way. To be more specific, as Dave mentioned in > > his > > > email, we understand that the Apache Way says “If it is not on the dev > > > list, it doesn’t happen”. That’s exactly how our team members make > > > contributions and participate in the community. We not only ask our team > > > members to follow the Apache Way, but also encourage our users, > > customers, > > > and partners to participate in the community in the same manner. > > > > > > To iterate, all the discussions/proposals made in the dev mailing list > > must > > > be approved/rejected by the PMC. Hence the PMC has the ultimate say (not > > > StreamNative) in the direction of the project. Your false accusation of > > > StreamNative controlling the roadmap indicates that either you don’t > > fully > > > understand how the decision is made in ASF or you think way too much of > > > StreamNative :) > > > > > > Secondly, EVERYONE can contribute to the project roadmap. PMC > > > approves/rejects proposals by casting its votes. This is how the ASF > > > community works and how the ASF maintains vendor-neutral. No one except > > PMC > > > controls the roadmap but EVERYONE has the freedom to propose and > > > contribute. > > > > > > To elaborate more on the process, every PMC member has the free right and > > > should be encouraged to talk to the broader community to discuss ideas. > > > They bring ideas back to the mailing list for discussion. We work with > > > Pulsar users and customers every day. We observe and learn what the users > > > are doing, discussing, and requesting. We then bring the ideas back as > > > proposals or encourage the users/customers to propose the ideas directly > > in > > > the mailing list which as discussed above, to be approved/rejected by the > > > PMC. > > > > > > At StreamNative, we are extremely fortunate to work with the PMC members, > > > committers, and contributors who help and guide people to contribute to > > the > > > project roadmap and empower the community. If anyone is interested in how > > > the Ambassador Program works, I would encourage everyone to sign up for > > the > > > program to help us grow the adoption of Apache Pulsar. > > > > > > Lastly, my humble suggestion - if you are really passionate about Pulsar, > > > let’s do something positive for the community instead of passing > > complaints > > > and creating false accusations. You are welcome to submit a PIP or PR, > > talk > > > to the users in the community to hear what the users really need, improve > > > the software, and organize a meetup, etc. I am more than happy to help > > you > > > get started contributing. > > > > > > - Sijie > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 12:57 PM Chris Latimer <ch...@chrislatimer.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Saying that tweet implies that SN wants to control the roadmap is putting > > > > > > it mildly. It is very clearly stating that StreamNative controls the > > > > > > roadmap and that the way to get involved and help shape the technology is > > > > > > by engaging with SN via their Ambassador program. > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 10, 2021 at 1:47 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2021, at 3:24 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave - I don't think SN presents the community. We just shared out > > > > > > > insights > > > > > > > > on community progress. Also, if you looked into our past blog posts, > > we > > > > > > > > have been pointing people to the Pulsar website and Slack channel. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This tweet > > https://twitter.com/streamnativeio/status/1469366308022013953 > > > > > > > from today implies SN wants to control the roadmap. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the Apache Way the project roadmap is discussed on the dev list. If > > > > > > > it’s not on the dev list it didn’t happen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Sijie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 12:13 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> OK. I see the new name. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> My concern is about SN posting blogs that are about community news > > > > > > > without > > > > > > > >> telling readers where the whole Pulsar community can be found. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>> On Dec 9, 2021, at 6:18 AM, Dianjin Wang <djw...@streamnative.io > > > > > > > .INVALID> > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> I want to sync the blog status, the update has been done. > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> Best, > > > > > > > >>> Dianjin Wang > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>> On Thu, Dec 9, 2021 at 2:34 PM Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >>> > > > > > > > >>>> Hi Dave, > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> Will follow up tomorrow morning (Pacific Time). > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> - Sijie > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 9:35 PM Dave Fisher <wave4d...@comcast.net > > > > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Hi Sijie, > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks for handling this issue. I’ll check in my morning. There > > > > > > was a > > > > > > > >>>>> reference on the Community Newsletter as well. Please check that > > > > > > too. > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Best Regards, > > > > > > > >>>>> Dave > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Dec 8, 2021, at 9:24 PM, Sijie Guo <guosi...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Dave, > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I think that is a mistake. We already caught it. Dianjin is > > fixing > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>> - Sijie > > > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 11:41 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> This is great news! > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> However the ending of the blog post [1] does not follow the > > > > > > Apache > > > > > > > >> Way > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> This bullet point is misleading and serves to split the > > > > > > community. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> • Join the 2022 Pulsar Ambassador Program and work directly > > with > > > > > > > >>>> Pulsar > > > > > > > >>>>>>> PMCs and top contributors to co-host events, promote new > > project > > > > > > > >>>>> updates, > > > > > > > >>>>>>> and build the Pulsar community in your city. Contact Us: > > > > > > > >>>>>>> ambassa...@streamnative.io > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> (1) This mailing list (dev@pulsar.apache.org) is the one and > > > > > > only > > > > > > > >>>> place > > > > > > > >>>>>>> to work directly with the whole of the Apache Pulsar community. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> (2) If you engage in this unofficial, vendor-specific > > > > > > “Ambassador” > > > > > > > >>>>> program > > > > > > > >>>>>>> you are not growing the whole and miss connecting with most of > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >>>> true > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Apache Pulsar community. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Please rewrite or remove this divisive bullet point. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Here is a blog post about how Apache is supposed to work. [2] > > And > > > > > > > >> more > > > > > > > >>>>>>> about the Apache Way [3] > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> FYI - PMCs is plural for PMC. Apache Pulsar is one of 200+ > > Apache > > > > > > > >>>> PMCs. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> PMC’s have members who are individuals. Here are definitions of > > > > > > > roles > > > > > > > >>>>> [4]. > > > > > > > >>>>>>> The community consists of people who are in all of these > > roles. A > > > > > > > >>>>> project > > > > > > > >>>>>>> is supposed to be managed as described here. [5] > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> All The Best, > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Dave > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> [1] > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://streamnative.io/blog/community/2021-12-07-pulsar-hits-10000-github-stars-milestone/ > > > > > > > >>>>>>> [2] > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > https://blogs.apache.org/foundation/entry/the-apache-way-to-sustainable > > > > > > > >>>>>>> [3] https://www.apache.org/theapacheway/index.html > > > > > > > >>>>>>> [4] https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#roles > > > > > > > >>>>>>> [5] > > > > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#management > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Dec 7, 2021, at 9:36 PM, Yu <li...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Hi Pulsar enthusiasts, > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Our community has been growing ever-faster since it became a > > > > > > > >>>> top-level > > > > > > > >>>>>>> project of the ASF in 2018. > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Recently, Pulsar hits 10, 000 Github stars milestone! We would > > > > > > > like > > > > > > > >>>> to > > > > > > > >>>>>>> thank every stargazer for joining us on the journey. More > > > > > > > >> importantly, > > > > > > > >>>>>>> thank you to every Pulsar user, contributor, and committer for > > > > > > > making > > > > > > > >>>>> this > > > > > > > >>>>>>> happen! > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Here is a glance at the vibrancy of the Pulsar community: > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> For more details about Pulsar's community growth, recent > > > > > > updates, > > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > > >>>>>>> future plans, see here. > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Cheers, > > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Anonymitaet > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
