On 16 August 2013 19:44, Rory O'Farrell <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, 16 Aug 2013 14:39:16 -0400 > Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Donald Whytock <[email protected]> wrote: >> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:32 PM, Rob Weir <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:18 PM, Hagar Delest <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> Objet : Re: Microsoft Censors OpenOffice Download Links >> >> >> Not to speak for them, but I suspect they would point out the fact >> >> >> that we there are over 100 Apache projects, and they all seem to do >> >> >> fine with distribution via the mirrors. >> >> >> >> >> >> Personally, I'd wonder where this rates with us in terms of priority. >> >> >> Compare to, say, forum stability improvements, code signing for our >> >> >> installers, and further buildbot coverage, where do torrents rate? >> >> > >> >> > Of course it's not a priority. >> >> > But think about the mechanism of torrent: once it's initiated, it >> >> spreads by itself without any input needed. I'm not sure we need powerful >> >> resources for the seeds, we can even limit the number of uploads I guess. >> >> And then let the torrent spread among users. >> >> > >> >> > A forum was not in the field of the ASF scope. The AOO forum is still >> >> doing and rather well, there is a lot of cooperation and feedback when >> >> information is forwarded from on side to the other. So why not make a >> >> torrent a first for ASF? >> >> > >> >> > Please remember that you're handling an office suite, it's not a niche >> >> program, it's something that is heavily popular, you tell it yourself when >> >> you inform the list about the millions downloads. Ubuntu offers torrents >> >> for example. >> >> > >> >> >> >> AOO is popular. Torrents are not. I bet that <1% of downloads were >> >> of torrent, when OOo had them. >> >> >> >> Remember, a common question from users is "I just downloaded >> >> OpenOffice and now I cannot find it". So skill level of typical user >> >> is not ideal for explaining how to download via P2P. >> >> >> >> > If ASF does not want to do new things because no other ASF project has >> >> even tried, then I'm rather worried about the future. Especially when on >> >> the other side LibreOffice has a so efficient team, very good at marketing >> >> their project. >> >> > >> >> >> >> 1. Maybe ask LibreOffice how many torrent downloads they see? That >> >> would be an interesting number to know. >> >> >> >> 2. This is not a question of avoiding doing something new. It is a >> >> question of prioritization based on cost and benefit. >> >> >> >> 3. Torrents are not even new. They are old technology. >> >> >> >> 4. There is nothing to prevent someone from seeding a torrent for AOO >> >> today, right now if you thought it was important. It does not need to >> >> come from Apache. >> >> >> >> >> > Infra could conceivably create torrents for every ASF distro file, probably >> > on an automated basis. Were that to happen, the effort by the AOO TLP >> > would be nil and the effort proportionally related to AOO would be >> > negligible. >> > >> > Of course, this could take some significant setup effort on Infra's part, >> > and if only the AOO torrents were ever used someone might say, "Why are we >> > doing this for only one TLP?" >> > >> > It would be best if ASF could do it so as to add legitimacy to the torrent. >> > Otherwise, if AOO itself was doing it, it would need to be on a >> > respected/respectable torrent server, such that we could point to it and >> > say, "That is the official AOO torrent." >> > >> >> I think that's the key. If it is to be considered "official" then we >> need sufficient control to ensure that it has not been tampered. What >> we do right now is have Release Candidates on Apache servers, which >> are voted on and then copied onto another Apache server for archives, >> and then rsynced from that Apache server by SourceForge. And all >> along we have the original digital signature files that can be >> verified. So it is around as secure as we can go without taking the >> builds themselves right from Apache-hosted buildbots, which is the >> next logical step. >> >> But honestly my low motivation for this is based on the fact that >> we're talking about a 150MB file, not a 4GB ISO image. The typical >> user can download AOO in less time than it took me to write this note. >> For me it takes longer to install AOO than to download it. So in the >> grand order of annoyances related to AOO, the download time does not >> seem to rate very highly. >> >> That's my personal opinion. But the nice thing about Apache is this >> doesn't prevent someone else from moving this forward if they have the >> motivation. Everyone is able to scratch their own itch here. >> >> Regards, >> >> -Rob >> >> >> > Maybe a cheap 10gig VM? >> > >> > Don > > With respect, Rob, we don't all live in fibre access broadband areas. I count > myself lucky in having 200KB/sec access; there are those who are still stuck > with 56KB modems on bad dial-up lines. My OpenOffice download is typically > 12-14 minutes.
But would a torrent improve the download times over slow links? Surely the limiting factor is the link speed in that case, as any download servers would have a much higher bandwidth. > >> > > > -- > Rory O'Farrell <[email protected]> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
