On 8/13/13, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: > > On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > >> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> >> wrote: >> >>> Speaking of a confusing email exchange. This is difficult for busy >>> people >>> in the last 24 hours how many messages have been posted? A lot. By how >>> many >>> people? Not many and most by one person. >>> >>> Did anyone create a CWiki page to outline an actual proposal and >>> possible >>> variations? >>> >> >> I created this page: >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/File+handling+proposal+for+logos+and+graphics > > I edited the root files and made it into a table where the disposition of > each file and folder can be developed and approved.
ok but I do believe this proposal was for images and logo, and adding all the other directories put some overhead to what the proposal is about. I did include the files to identify possible conventions. > > Please don't overwrite it. Allow others to contribute. I suggest a similar > format for other directories. > > Regards, > Dave > >> >> >> >> >>> >>> I would like to know what the delta is from what we are doing now to any >>> new state in order to see if I agree or have another choice. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Dave >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/13/13, Ricardo Berlasso <rgb.m...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> 2013/8/13 Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/13/13, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>> <j...@oooes.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>>>> <j...@oooes.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the image structure on the website is a bit messy, >>>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>>> some cleanup done by kschenk but I think there is still a lot >>>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> clean up >>>>>>>>>>>> work to be done. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For example, the new logo, was simply draged and drop to the >>>>>>>> AOOLogos >>>>>>>>>>>> folder with a huge name. I understand the name was needed to >>>>>>>> identify >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>>> between the rest of the competitive logos. But now that is >>>>>>>>>>>> selected, >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> current name is unecessary long. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png< >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png?view=log >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Right. That work is incomplete. I checked it in originally, >>>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>>> the logo vote, so we could start working on the product >>>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>>>>>>> immediately. But note that the above logo is not the one we >>>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>>> used in AOO 4.0 !! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The one we actually used is this one: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branding/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_Inkscape_kg.svg >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This was Chris R's contest logo with some minor technical >>>>>>>>>>> changes. >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin G. used this and generated the PNG/JPG files for AOO 4.0, >>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>> I helped check in. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My intent was to take that SVG and rename it to >>>>>> "master-logo-40.svg" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Again I think we do need a convention for a "logo.svg" as opposed >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> ending with a logo-30.svg logo-40.svg logo-50.svg. An just >>>>>>>> incrementally >>>>>>>>>> replace with the future logos as we update the SVG. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Here's the complication: The old logos are still relevant some >>>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>>> purposes. For example, the PMC receives ongoing requests to >>>>>>>>> approve >>>>>>>>> use of the old OpenOffice.org logo. Why would that happen? Often >>>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>> is a request by publishers who are making an e-book version of an >>>>>>>>> older print book. If their original request did not include the >>>>>>>>> e-book rights then they come back to us (and owners of every other >>>>>>>>> image they use) to request additional permissions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that 'complication' is the lesser of two evils., compared >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> having to manage a ever growing ammount of images. And beside that, >>> do >>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>> realize the difference in objectives between ooo-site/images/ >>>>>>>> ooo-site/marketing/art/images/ and ooo-site/branding/images. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I dont see any reason why those issues should impact the web works >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> ooo-site/images/. That folder is for website-design related work. >>>>>>>> It >>>>>> has, >>>>>>>> or shouldnt hold any porpouse to archieve past work, nor to hold >>>>>>>> description of any kind. I think website should be as lean and easy >>> to >>>>>>>> follow since we expect these conventions be followed by a rotating >>>>>>>> community. So again K.I.S.S. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No, it shouldn't. The ooo-site/images areas got the logo added to it >>>>>> simply >>>>>>> because to make it easier to locate it. The other images files there >>>>>> belong >>>>>>> to the home page. The svg sub-directory here is really the >>>>>>> mis-placed >>>>>> one. >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually I would like to see getting rid of the rasterize images >>>>>> instead. Modern browsers already process SVG natively without issues. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well, that's not completely true: even if not "modern" any more there >>> are >>>>> literally millions of people still using internet explorer 8 or even >>> older >>>>> versions, and SVG support was *partially* implemented only from IE9. >>>>> IE8 >>>>> needs a plug-in for SVG rendering. >>>>> >>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Compatibility >>>> >>>> That's why I recomend and reference javascript libraries that take >>>> care of legacy browsers additionally there are fallback techniques >>>> (http://dbushell.com/2012/04/03/svg-use-it-already/). Then again, you >>>> can just test this easily using browsershots or something similar and >>>> evaluate. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> Ricardo >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Also there are js libraries that ensure browser compatibility like >>>>>> the >>>>>> svgweb.js library: >>>>>> http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If those complications arises, send them to marketing or branding >>>>>>>> workspaces. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So it may be possible, going forward, to store logos as SVN >>>>>>>>> revisions >>>>>>>>> under the same name. But we cannot retroactively do this with >>>>>>>>> pre-Apache logos. And even if we could, this is harder for users >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the logo to access. It is much easier to have something like >>>>>>>>> logo-330.svg available via HTTP. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> svg are just like HTML files, they are markup languages, we dont >>>>>>>> hold >>>>>> the >>>>>>>> index.html inmaculated and hold an apache-index.html and >>>>>>>> oracle-index.html, >>>>>>>> so I dont see why SVG should be any different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't agree this assessment. The svg files contain branding, or >>>>>>> trademark sources. These are entities which should not be changed >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> resulting in a trademark violation. If there is something wrong with >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> SVG files for whatever reason, this needs to undergo a justification >>>>>>> discussion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The only porpouse of having >>>>>>>> a source file, is for users to be able to modify it on the first >>>>>>>> place. >>>>>>>> Either by integrating to a bigger SVG design, or resizing it for >>> print >>>>>>>> work. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This part I do agree with. The svg files can be used to produce >>> various >>>>>>> sizes of the "trademarked" entities. Changing the source of that >>> entity >>>>>> is >>>>>>> a different matter in my opinion. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Of course you can have a hybrid approach: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1) When a new logo is introduced, svn copy the old one into a >>>>>>>>> /old-logos directory with a new descriptive name. This preserves >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> version history. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is not functional and just start acumulating part of the same >>>>>>>> garbage >>>>>>>> that svn is supposed to clean up. Again, if this was code, this >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> be >>>>>>>> totally unacceptable approach. If new logos are introduced then >>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>> replace the current logo, and the old will live in anals of the svn >>>>>> logs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2) New logo then is checked in as a new revision of >>>>>>>>> logo-master.svg. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> People are free to disagree with me, but I think this is a messy >>>>>>>> way >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> work, and for a webdev folder is completely useless, specially when >>>>>> there >>>>>>>> is a whole different project specialized on archiving, developing, >>> and >>>>>>>> multiplying artwork inside marketing, and a whole different project >>>>>>>> devoted >>>>>>>> to specifying the guideliness of the brand (aka logo). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> or something clean like that. However, I have not had any luck >>>>>>>>>>> getting this logo to load into Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator. I >>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> errors. And I have not had any luck getting Kevin to send a >>>>>> version >>>>>>>>>>> that will load. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So we're stuck right now with a logo that does load into >>>>>>>>>>> Inkscape, >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> is slightly different than the one we used in AOO 4.0. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At the same time we have old logos which had been untouch. I >>>>>> think >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> webdevs have small understanding of a svn is builted so that >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> files >>>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>>> updated without having different versions laying arround. Over >>>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>>> example, ooo-logo.png and >>>>>>>>>>>> AOO4_website_logo.png< >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/AOO4_website_logo.png?view=log >>>>>>>>>>>> exist. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> All these proliferation of logos, usually will built up to >>>>>>>>>>>> become >>>>>>>>>>>> incredibly messy to work. I suggest to put the information such >>>>>> as >>>>>>>>>>> author, >>>>>>>>>>>> version, status, etc. on the comments of the commit and not on >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> filename. Likewise to take the time to look for the source of >>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> image, >>>>>>>>>>>> since there is an SVG/ folder to link the source of them, and >>>>>>>> finally >>>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>>> there are different images (sizes) to have a common convention. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A more logical naming scheme would be good, I agree. But this >>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>>> been waiting for resolution of which SVG we should actually be >>>>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If you want to review the images please go here: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/ >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> MzK >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Success is falling nine times and getting up ten." >>>>>>> -- Jon Bon Jovi >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Alexandro Colorado >> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >> http://www.openoffice.org > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > > -- Alexandro Colorado Apache OpenOffice Contributor http://www.openoffice.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
