On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 5:04 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote: > >> Speaking of a confusing email exchange. This is difficult for busy people >> in the last 24 hours how many messages have been posted? A lot. By how many >> people? Not many and most by one person. >> >> Did anyone create a CWiki page to outline an actual proposal and possible >> variations? >> > > I created this page: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/File+handling+proposal+for+logos+and+graphics
I edited the root files and made it into a table where the disposition of each file and folder can be developed and approved. Please don't overwrite it. Allow others to contribute. I suggest a similar format for other directories. Regards, Dave > > > > >> >> I would like to know what the delta is from what we are doing now to any >> new state in order to see if I agree or have another choice. >> >> Regards, >> Dave >> >> On Aug 13, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Alexandro Colorado wrote: >> >>> On 8/13/13, Ricardo Berlasso <rgb.m...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> 2013/8/13 Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> >>>> >>>>> On 8/13/13, Kay Schenk <kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:04 AM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 12, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> >> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 7:49 PM, Alexandro Colorado <j...@oooes.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 1:35 AM, Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>>> <j...@oooes.org >>>>>> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> I think the image structure on the website is a bit messy, >>>>>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>> been >>>>>>>>>>> some cleanup done by kschenk but I think there is still a lot >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> clean up >>>>>>>>>>> work to be done. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For example, the new logo, was simply draged and drop to the >>>>>>> AOOLogos >>>>>>>>>>> folder with a huge name. I understand the name was needed to >>>>>>> identify >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>>>>> between the rest of the competitive logos. But now that is >>>>>>>>>>> selected, >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> current name is unecessary long. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png< >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_optim_300w.png?view=log >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Right. That work is incomplete. I checked it in originally, >>>>>>>>>> after >>>>>>>>>> the logo vote, so we could start working on the product >>>>>>>>>> integration >>>>>>>>>> immediately. But note that the above logo is not the one we >>>>>>>>>> actually >>>>>>>>>> used in AOO 4.0 !! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The one we actually used is this one: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/branding/Apache_OpenOffice_Logo_ChrisR_selected_2013-06_Inkscape_kg.svg >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This was Chris R's contest logo with some minor technical >>>>>>>>>> changes. >>>>>>>>>> Kevin G. used this and generated the PNG/JPG files for AOO 4.0, >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> I helped check in. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> My intent was to take that SVG and rename it to >>>>> "master-logo-40.svg" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Again I think we do need a convention for a "logo.svg" as opposed >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> ending with a logo-30.svg logo-40.svg logo-50.svg. An just >>>>>>> incrementally >>>>>>>>> replace with the future logos as we update the SVG. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here's the complication: The old logos are still relevant some >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> purposes. For example, the PMC receives ongoing requests to approve >>>>>>>> use of the old OpenOffice.org logo. Why would that happen? Often >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>>> is a request by publishers who are making an e-book version of an >>>>>>>> older print book. If their original request did not include the >>>>>>>> e-book rights then they come back to us (and owners of every other >>>>>>>> image they use) to request additional permissions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think that 'complication' is the lesser of two evils., compared to >>>>>>> having to manage a ever growing ammount of images. And beside that, >> do >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> realize the difference in objectives between ooo-site/images/ >>>>>>> ooo-site/marketing/art/images/ and ooo-site/branding/images. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I dont see any reason why those issues should impact the web works of >>>>>>> ooo-site/images/. That folder is for website-design related work. It >>>>> has, >>>>>>> or shouldnt hold any porpouse to archieve past work, nor to hold >>>>>>> description of any kind. I think website should be as lean and easy >> to >>>>>>> follow since we expect these conventions be followed by a rotating >>>>>>> community. So again K.I.S.S. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, it shouldn't. The ooo-site/images areas got the logo added to it >>>>> simply >>>>>> because to make it easier to locate it. The other images files there >>>>> belong >>>>>> to the home page. The svg sub-directory here is really the mis-placed >>>>> one. >>>>> >>>>> Actually I would like to see getting rid of the rasterize images >>>>> instead. Modern browsers already process SVG natively without issues. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Well, that's not completely true: even if not "modern" any more there >> are >>>> literally millions of people still using internet explorer 8 or even >> older >>>> versions, and SVG support was *partially* implemented only from IE9. IE8 >>>> needs a plug-in for SVG rendering. >>>> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalable_Vector_Graphics#Compatibility >>> >>> That's why I recomend and reference javascript libraries that take >>> care of legacy browsers additionally there are fallback techniques >>> (http://dbushell.com/2012/04/03/svg-use-it-already/). Then again, you >>> can just test this easily using browsershots or something similar and >>> evaluate. >>> >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Ricardo >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Also there are js libraries that ensure browser compatibility like the >>>>> svgweb.js library: >>>>> http://code.google.com/p/svgweb/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> If those complications arises, send them to marketing or branding >>>>>>> workspaces. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So it may be possible, going forward, to store logos as SVN >>>>>>>> revisions >>>>>>>> under the same name. But we cannot retroactively do this with >>>>>>>> pre-Apache logos. And even if we could, this is harder for users of >>>>>>>> the logo to access. It is much easier to have something like >>>>>>>> logo-330.svg available via HTTP. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> svg are just like HTML files, they are markup languages, we dont hold >>>>> the >>>>>>> index.html inmaculated and hold an apache-index.html and >>>>>>> oracle-index.html, >>>>>>> so I dont see why SVG should be any different. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't agree this assessment. The svg files contain branding, or >>>>>> trademark sources. These are entities which should not be changed -- >>>>>> resulting in a trademark violation. If there is something wrong with >>>>>> the >>>>>> SVG files for whatever reason, this needs to undergo a justification >>>>>> discussion. >>>>>> >>>>>> The only porpouse of having >>>>>>> a source file, is for users to be able to modify it on the first >>>>>>> place. >>>>>>> Either by integrating to a bigger SVG design, or resizing it for >> print >>>>>>> work. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This part I do agree with. The svg files can be used to produce >> various >>>>>> sizes of the "trademarked" entities. Changing the source of that >> entity >>>>> is >>>>>> a different matter in my opinion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course you can have a hybrid approach: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1) When a new logo is introduced, svn copy the old one into a >>>>>>>> /old-logos directory with a new descriptive name. This preserves >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> version history. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is not functional and just start acumulating part of the same >>>>>>> garbage >>>>>>> that svn is supposed to clean up. Again, if this was code, this would >>>>>>> be >>>>>>> totally unacceptable approach. If new logos are introduced then they >>>>>>> should >>>>>>> replace the current logo, and the old will live in anals of the svn >>>>> logs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2) New logo then is checked in as a new revision of logo-master.svg. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> People are free to disagree with me, but I think this is a messy way >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> work, and for a webdev folder is completely useless, specially when >>>>> there >>>>>>> is a whole different project specialized on archiving, developing, >> and >>>>>>> multiplying artwork inside marketing, and a whole different project >>>>>>> devoted >>>>>>> to specifying the guideliness of the brand (aka logo). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> or something clean like that. However, I have not had any luck >>>>>>>>>> getting this logo to load into Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator. I >>>>> get >>>>>>>>>> errors. And I have not had any luck getting Kevin to send a >>>>> version >>>>>>>>>> that will load. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So we're stuck right now with a logo that does load into >>>>>>>>>> Inkscape, >>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>> is slightly different than the one we used in AOO 4.0. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> At the same time we have old logos which had been untouch. I >>>>> think >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> webdevs have small understanding of a svn is builted so that >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>> files >>>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>>>> updated without having different versions laying arround. Over >>>>>>>>>>> this >>>>>>>>>>> example, ooo-logo.png and >>>>>>>>>>> AOO4_website_logo.png< >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/AOO4_website_logo.png?view=log >>>>>>>>>>> exist. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All these proliferation of logos, usually will built up to >>>>>>>>>>> become >>>>>>>>>>> incredibly messy to work. I suggest to put the information such >>>>> as >>>>>>>>>> author, >>>>>>>>>>> version, status, etc. on the comments of the commit and not on >>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> filename. Likewise to take the time to look for the source of >>>>> the >>>>>>>> image, >>>>>>>>>>> since there is an SVG/ folder to link the source of them, and >>>>>>> finally >>>>>>>> if >>>>>>>>>>> there are different images (sizes) to have a common convention. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> A more logical naming scheme would be good, I agree. But this >>>>>>>>>> has >>>>>>>>>> been waiting for resolution of which SVG we should actually be >>>>>>>>>> using. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -Rob >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you want to review the images please go here: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/ooo-site/trunk/content/images/AOO_logos/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> MzK >>>>>> >>>>>> Success is falling nine times and getting up ten." >>>>>> -- Jon Bon Jovi >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Alexandro Colorado >>>>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>>>> http://www.openoffice.org >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Alexandro Colorado >>> Apache OpenOffice Contributor >>> http://www.openoffice.org >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org >> >> > > > -- > Alexandro Colorado > Apache OpenOffice Contributor > http://www.openoffice.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org
