Hi Chia-Ping, Thanks for your feedback. What I intended to express is that if `Optional.empty()` is passed to the `timeout`, it will eventually be converted to `DEFAULT_CLOSE_TIMEOUT_MS`, just as you mentioned. Apologies for not expressing that clearly and for any confusion caused.
Best regards, TengYao Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月29日 週日 下午10:16寫道： > hi TengYao > > > I have reviewed the `close()` method implementation for both the Classic > and Async Consumers. I believe the `timeout` parameter could have a default > value, and this default should align with the existing `Consumer#close()` > method, which internally calls the overloaded `Consumer#close(Duration)` > with a default of 30 seconds (`DEFAULT_CLOSE_TIMEOUT_MS`). > > If you assign a default value (30s) to CloseOptions#timeout, the consumer > won't be able to differentiate between the "default" and "user-defined" > behaviors. > > Therefore, I prefer to leave the timeout empty as the default value, > allowing the consumer to handle it in a way that reflects default behavior. > Best, > Chia-Ping > > > > TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月29日 週日 下午2:23寫道： > > > Hi Sophie, > > > > Thanks for the suggestions. > > > > I have reviewed the `close()` method implementation for both the Classic > > and Async Consumers. I believe the `timeout` parameter could have a > default > > value, and this default should align with the existing `Consumer#close()` > > method, which internally calls the overloaded `Consumer#close(Duration)` > > with a default of 30 seconds (`DEFAULT_CLOSE_TIMEOUT_MS`). > > > > Regarding the `leaveGroup` parameter, since static and dynamic members > have > > different default behaviors upon close, and the primitive type boolean > > cannot capture all cases, I agree with Chia-Ping’s suggestion of using > > Optional instead. This approach avoids potential NPE issues that could > > arise from using the boxed type Boolean and allows us to cover all use > > cases more effectively. > > > > Given the above, although there is no standard in the Consumer API (as > far > > as I know), I believe adopting a fluent API would be beneficial, as it > > would be more user-friendly and concise for configuring the necessary > > options. > > > > Best, > > TengYao > > > > Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月29日 週日 上午7:07寫道： > > > > > hi Sophie > > > > > > Fewer overloads are preferable, so in my opinion, the consumer should > > only > > > have close() and close(CloseOptions), with the other overloads > > deprecated. > > > > > > That means all options in CloseOptions should be optional, and we > should > > > use a fluent-style API to add setters for them. This would allow users > to > > > configure only the necessary options while leaving the rest at their > > > default values. For example: > > > > > > // case 0: set both timeout and leaveGroup > > > new CloseOptions() > > > .timeout(100) > > > .leaveGroup(false); > > > > > > // case 1: set only timeout and leaveGroup is default > > > new CloseOptions() > > > .timeout(100) > > > > > > // case 2: set only leaveGroup, and timeout is default > > > new CloseOptions() > > > .leaveGroup(true) > > > > > > Additionally, all getters of CloseOptions return Optional<>, which can > > > distinguish between a "default" value and a "user-defined" value. For > > > another, `close()` can have default implementation by `close(new > > > CloseOptions())` > > > > > > Best, > > > Chia-Ping > > > > > > > > > Sophie Blee-Goldman <sop...@responsive.dev> 於 2024年9月29日 週日 上午5:52寫道： > > > > > > > @Matthias, regarding your questions in 101, is it fair to summarize > > your > > > > points here as (A) only Kafka Streams, but not plain consumer, would > > need > > > > to avoid leaving the group on close (for non-static members), and (B) > > > with > > > > KIP-1088 we will soon have a Streams-specific Consumer API that would > > be > > > > more suited to these kinds of Streams-specific APIs, and therefore > --> > > > (C) > > > > it doesn't make sense to do this KIP now and we should just wait for > > 1088 > > > > so we can apply the API on top of it? > > > > > > > > If that's a fair summary, then I would have to disagree. Not sending > a > > > > LeaveGroup on close for dynamic members isn't some highly > > > > specific optimization that could only ever make sense in the context > of > > > > Kafka Streams. IT doesn't really have to do with Kafka Streams at > all, > > > it's > > > > just a good thing to do for stateful apps where you don't want to > > shuffle > > > > around partitions too much after a simple bounce. So imo this KIP > makes > > > > sense to do as-is, and people have been asking for it for quite some > > time > > > > so I wouldn't want to delay this any further if possible. > > > > > > > > Also, this is technically a bit of an implementation detail so > perhaps > > it > > > > doesn't belong in the KIP, but I think we should remove the > > > > "internal.leave.group.pon.close" ConsumerConfig that was used > > exclusively > > > > by Kafka Streams since we can now use the new > > > Consumer#close(CloseOptions) > > > > API for everything. And we should mention doing this in the KIP, even > > > > though it's an internal config, just in case someone out there is > using > > > it. > > > > > > > > @Chia-Ping > > > > Regarding what the default behavior, I think it probably makes sense > to > > > > leave the default behavior of the CloseOptions identical to the > > existing > > > > Consumer#close overloads to avoid making things too complicated for > > users > > > > to understand. Especially if we're not going to remove the old #close > > > > overloads > > > > > > > > @TengYao > > > > Thanks for adding the specific APIs. We should probably first > determine > > > > things like which parameters of CloseOptions should be required and > > which > > > > can be left to the default (plus what that default is: see above > > > > conversation with Chia-Ping) and then we can design the API around > > that. > > > I > > > > noticed for example that with the current proposal, it would be > > > impossible > > > > to set both the leaveGroup and timeOut parameters of the > CloseOptions. > > We > > > > need to make sure the available public constructors allow users to > set > > > the > > > > full range of configs. We could also use a fluent-style API like we > do > > in > > > > Kafka Streams for config objects. Not sure what (if anything) is the > > > > standard for Consumer APIs? > > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, one open-ended question I have for everyone here: should the > > > > leaveGroup config be a required parameter of CloseOptions? Or should > we > > > > allow users to pass in an "empty" CloseOptions to leave both the > > timeout > > > > and leaveGroup behavior to the default? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 28, 2024 at 9:58 AM Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > hi TengYao > > > > > > > > > > Could you please consider adding a "default" behavior for > leaveGroup? > > > As > > > > I > > > > > previously mentioned, leaveGroup=true is not ideal as the default > for > > > > > static members, and similarly, leaveGroup=false is not suitable as > > the > > > > > default for dynamic members. > > > > > > > > > > Maybe we could change the type of leaveGroup to Optional<Boolean>, > > > > allowing > > > > > it to represent three distinct behaviors. > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > > > > Chia-Ping > > > > > > > > > > TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月29日 週日 上午12:51寫道： > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Sophie > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for feedback. > > > > > > I have updated the Public Interface part accordingly. > > > > > > Please take a look. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > TengYao > > > > > > > > > > > > TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月28日 週六 下午1:26寫道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Matthias, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the explanation, particularly regarding the > important > > > > > > > considerations for both the plain consumer and Kafka Streams > use > > > > cases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, I think it would be better to stick with my > initial > > > > > > > proposal. We should give plain consumers the ability to > determine > > > > > whether > > > > > > > to send a leave group request or not, with clear documentation > > > > > > highlighting > > > > > > > the potential downsides. This could also provide flexibility > for > > > > future > > > > > > > features. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > > TengYao > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> 於 2024年9月28日 週六 上午3:27寫道： > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> hi Matthias > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > 100: Why do we want to distinguish between the classic and > > the > > > > new > > > > > > >> async > > > > > > >> consumer? Should they not have the same (user facing) > behavior? > > Or > > > > > maybe > > > > > > >> I misunderstand something. Can one catch we up what epoch "-1" > > vs > > > > > epoch > > > > > > >> "-2" means? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I apologize for any confusion in my earlier explanation. The > > way a > > > > > > >> consumer > > > > > > >> leaves a group varies between the Classic Consumer and the > Async > > > > > > Consumer: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> - The *Classic Consumer* uses a LeaveGroupRequest but does > *not* > > > > send > > > > > > this > > > > > > >> request for static members. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> - In contrast, the *Async Consumer* sends a > > > > > > ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest. > > > > > > >> If the member is static, this request is sent with an epoch > > value > > > of > > > > > -2, > > > > > > >> indicating that the static member has temporarily left the > group > > > and > > > > > is > > > > > > >> *not* removed. An epoch of -1 in the CONSUMER protocol > signifies > > > > that > > > > > > the > > > > > > >> static member is treated as a dynamic member and will leave > the > > > > group > > > > > > >> completely. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Hence, even if not useful for the plain consumer to disable > > > > sending > > > > > a > > > > > > >> leave-group-request, it might be worth to add a generic > > > > enable/disable > > > > > > >> API > > > > > > >> for both dynamic and static groups, so KS can use this API > (and > > we > > > > > > could > > > > > > >> remove the internal consumer config, which is a workaround > > > anyway). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> I agree that having a generic enable/disable API would be > > > > beneficial, > > > > > > >> especially if we can provide comprehensive documentation. This > > > > > > >> documentation should clearly outline the potential downsides > of > > > not > > > > > > >> sending > > > > > > >> a LEAVE_REQUEST for dynamic members, ensuring users are > > > > well-informed > > > > > > >> about > > > > > > >> the implications of their choices. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Best, > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Chia-Ping > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> 於 2024年9月28日 週六 上午2:07寫道： > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > Thanks for the KIP. Two questions/comments: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 100: Why do we want to distinguish between the classic and > the > > > new > > > > > > async > > > > > > >> > consumer? Should they not have the same (user facing) > > behavior? > > > Or > > > > > > maybe > > > > > > >> > I misunderstand something. Can one catch we up what epoch > "-1" > > > vs > > > > > > epoch > > > > > > >> > "-2" means? > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > 101: I think we need to distinguish between the plain > consumer > > > and > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > KS case. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Plain consumer: for this case, atm user don't have control > at > > > all, > > > > > but > > > > > > >> > it's hard coded when a leave group request is sent. If we > only > > > > > > consider > > > > > > >> > this case, the current KIP to allow sending a leave-group > > > request > > > > > for > > > > > > >> > static members is sufficient. I agree that disabling > > leave-group > > > > > > request > > > > > > >> > for dynamic member is not necessary for the plain consumer > > case. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > However, for the KS case it's different. Because KS uses the > > > > > internal > > > > > > >> > config to disable sending leave group request for dynamic > > > members, > > > > > we > > > > > > >> > lack an user facing API to enable sending a leave group > > request > > > > for > > > > > > this > > > > > > >> > case, and if we only allow to enable sending leave group > > request > > > > for > > > > > > >> > static members on the consumer, the KIP would fall short to > > > close > > > > > this > > > > > > >> gap. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Hence, even if not useful for the plain consumer to disable > > > > sending > > > > > a > > > > > > >> > leave-group-request, it might be worth to add a generic > > > > > enable/disable > > > > > > >> > API for both dynamic and static groups, so KS can use this > API > > > > (and > > > > > we > > > > > > >> > could remove the internal consumer config, which is a > > workaround > > > > > > >> anyway). > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On the other hand, given the light of KIP-1088, maybe there > > are > > > > > other > > > > > > >> > ways to fix it on the KS side? I think the goal should be to > > > > remove > > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > internal consumer config (as it's static, and we cannot > > > overwrite > > > > it > > > > > > at > > > > > > >> > runtime), and to give KS a way to dynamically send a > > > > > > leave-group-request > > > > > > >> > on close() -- but maybe we could build this on an internal > > > > consumer > > > > > > API, > > > > > > >> > and not make it public? For this case, the current KIP would > > be > > > > > > >> sufficient. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > -Matthias > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On 9/26/24 8:19 PM, Sophie Blee-Goldman wrote: > > > > > > >> > > Thanks for the KIP! Quick request for readability, can you > > > > please > > > > > > >> include > > > > > > >> > > the exact APIs that you're proposing to add or change > under > > > the > > > > > > >> "Public > > > > > > >> > > Interfaces" section? The KIP should display the actual > > method > > > > > > >> signature > > > > > > >> > and > > > > > > >> > > any applicable javadocs for new public APIs. > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > You can look at other KIPs for a clear sense of what it > > should > > > > > > >> contain, > > > > > > >> > but > > > > > > >> > > here's one example you could work from: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1036%3A+Extend+RecordDeserializationException+exception > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 6:22 PM Chia-Ping Tsai < > > > > > chia7...@gmail.com> > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >>> I think I’m actually OK with leaving it as leaveGroup > > with a > > > > lot > > > > > > of > > > > > > >> > >> documentation that warns users away from changing it > > > > arbitrarily. > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Pardon me, I just want to ensure we are all on the same > > page. > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> 1. `leaveGroup=true`: `ClassicKafkaConsumer` sends a > > > > > > >> > >> `LeaveGroupRequest` for either the dynamic or static > > > > member. > > > > > > >> > >> 2. `leaveGroup=false`: `ClassicKafkaConsumer` does > not > > > > send > > > > > > any > > > > > > >> ` > > > > > > >> > >> LeaveGroupRequest` for either the dynamic or static > > > member. > > > > > > >> > >> 3. `leaveGroup=default` (current behavior): > > > > > > >> `ClassicKafkaConsumer` > > > > > > >> > sends > > > > > > >> > >> a `LeaveGroupRequest` for dynamic member, and it does > > NOT > > > > > send > > > > > > >> any > > > > > > >> > >> `ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest`for static member > > > > > > >> > >> 4. `leaveGroup=true`: `AsyncKafkaConsumer` sends a > > > > > > >> > >> `ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest` with "-1" epoch for > > > either > > > > > the > > > > > > >> > dynamic > > > > > > >> > >> or > > > > > > >> > >> static member > > > > > > >> > >> 5. `leaveGroup=false`: `AsyncKafkaConsumer` sends a > > > > > > >> > >> `ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest` with "-2" epoch for > the > > > > > static > > > > > > >> > member, > > > > > > >> > >> and > > > > > > >> > >> it does NOT send any `ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest` > > for > > > > > > dynamic > > > > > > >> > member > > > > > > >> > >> 6. `leaveGroup=default` (current behavior): > > > > > > `AsyncKafkaConsumer` > > > > > > >> > sends a > > > > > > >> > >> `ConsumerGroupHeartbeatRequest`with "-1" epoch for > > > dynamic > > > > > > member > > > > > > >> > and > > > > > > >> > >> "-2" epoch for static member > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > >> Best, > > > > > > >> > >> Chia-Ping > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
