Hi all, @Tsai
I have no strong opinion on the removal schedule. Since the policy is decided this way, I just updated the KIP from 4.0 to 5.0. (see the 'Final Notes'!) @Matthias @Justine If you are satisfied with this plan, please cast +1 to the voting thread: https://lists.apache.org/thread/b5mjk0619j9rtyr1m7hxty11clotgy5m Thanks, Dongjin On Wed, Jul 10, 2024 at 12:56 AM Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Justine to confirm the rules > > I have updated the rules to Time Based Release Plan ( > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Time+Based+Release+Plan > ), > see following: > > We break compatibility (i.e. remove deprecated public methods after a > > reasonable period, and typically wait 1 year after deprecation). > > > > I think there could be an argument for deprecating this tool sooner than a > > year. (It is likely not used in production setups) But I am also ok with > > waiting a year if we think it is needed. > > > I have no strong reason to remove that tool in 4.0, so let's follow the > 1-year rule to remove it in 5.0 > > Dongjin WDYT? > > > Justine Olshan <jols...@confluent.io.invalid> 於 2024年7月9日 週二 下午11:24寫道： > > > Hey all, > > > > I agree with Chia-Ping that the deprecation should definitely occur in > 3.9. > > > > My understanding (after discussing offline with some folks) is that we > > typically wait 1 year after deprecation, but there are some exceptions to > > that rule. For KIP-1013, we traded off not waiting the whole period in > > order to get broker and tools deprecation before clients. This was done > > after some careful consideration and it ended up being almost a year > anyway > > with the 3.8 and 3.9 releases :) > > > > I think there could be an argument for deprecating this tool sooner than > a > > year. (It is likely not used in production setups) But I am also ok with > > waiting a year if we think it is needed. > > > > Justine > > > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2024 at 5:37 AM Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > > Deal all, > > > > > > It seems we need more discussion to reach the consensus on "rules" > > > 1. minor/major release rule > > > 2. 1 year rule > > > > > > the recent adopted KIPs following only rule_1 are shown below: > > > > > > KIP-1041 > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=303794933 > > > KIP-1013 > > > < > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=303794933KIP-1013 > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=284789510 > > > KIP-970 > > > < > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=284789510KIP-970 > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-970%3A+Deprecate+and+remove+Connect%27s+redundant+task+configurations+endpoint > > > > > > Given that the topic needs more time (and love), maybe we can start > vote > > > on KIP-1067 (by accepting 4.0 temporarily) to make sure KIP-1067 gets > > > deprecated in 3.9.0? Otherwise, the "start" of deprecation will get > > delayed > > > again... > > > > > > Also, we can revisit all above KIPs after we reach the consensus on > > > "deprecation rules" > > > > > > Best, > > > Chia-Ping > > > > > > > > > Justine Olshan <jols...@confluent.io.invalid> 於 2024年7月9日 週二 上午4:34寫道： > > > > > > > I was only aware of the minor/major release rule and not the 1 year > > rule. > > > > Is this written down somewhere? > > > > I only see this text about a "reasonable period" in > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/Time+Based+Release+Plan > > > > > > > > I also see another example of deprecation in 3.7 and removal in 4.0. > > (For > > > > reference the KIP suggests 4.0 would be in q3 2024 and 3.7 was > released > > > in > > > > q1 2024) > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=284789510 > > > > > > > > Justine > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 8:26 PM Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes, we would need to wait for 5.0 to remove it (assuming 5.0 will > go > > > > > out more than a year later -- eg, we had 2.0 release after 1.1, and > > > > > could not remove stuff deprecated in 0.11 either) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Personally, the second rule is easy to follow, but the side > effect > > > is > > > > > >> that the "deprecation cycle" is not fixed (for example, one > year). > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it's _minimum_ of one year, plus an unknown amount of time > until > > > > > the next major release comes along. > > > > > > > > > > It has always been this way, and for Kafka Streams for example, we > > only > > > > > consider to remove stuff in 4.0 that was deprecated in 3.6 or older > > > > > releases (cf https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KAFKA-12822), > > > > > including stuff deprecated in 2.7 and 2.8 which we could not remove > > in > > > > 3.0. > > > > > > > > > > Let me follow up on KIP-1041 -- I don't think we can this this... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Maybe it is a good time to have a discussion about the > deprecation > > > > > cycle. > > > > > > > > > > We can always discuss about it, but it has serves us well in the > > past. > > > > > Personally, I don't see a reason why we would want to change it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Matthias > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 7/7/24 7:14 PM, Chia-Ping Tsai wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> And even if we make an exception, > > > > > >> we usually have a deprecation period of at least 1 year, so > > removing > > > > the > > > > > >> tool in 4.0 seems to be something we cannot do? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That is a good question, and I have had a similar question > before. > > > > > > > > > > > > Deprecating it in 3.9 should be fine, so the problem is "can we > > > remove > > > > it > > > > > > from 4.0"? > > > > > > > > > > > > 1) "we usually have a deprecation period of at least 1 year" this > > was > > > > > what > > > > > > I believed before. > > > > > > 2) However, it seems another rule is "we don't introduce breaking > > > > changes > > > > > > in minor releases." > > > > > > > > > > > > If the above conditions have to be satisfied, I guess the version > > we > > > > can > > > > > > remove those deprecated stuff is 5.0.0 :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, there is another KIP trying to deprecate something in 3.8 > and > > > > then > > > > > > remove it in 4.0. ( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=303794933 > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is a good time to have a discussion about the > deprecation > > > > cycle. > > > > > > > > > > > > Personally, the second rule is easy to follow, but the side > effect > > is > > > > > > that the "deprecation cycle" is not fixed (for example, one > year). > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > Chia-Ping > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthias J. Sax <mj...@apache.org> 於 2024年7月8日 週一 上午9:37寫道： > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> If I understand correctly, instead of maintaining the tool > further > > > > (via > > > > > >> KIP-752) we want to deprecate the tool? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> This is fine, but it seem the KIP deadline for 3.9 passed, so we > > > > cannot > > > > > >> deprecate it in 3.9, but only in 4.0? And even if we make an > > > > exception, > > > > > >> we usually have a deprecation period of at least 1 year, so > > removing > > > > the > > > > > >> tool in 4.0 seems to be something we cannot do? > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -Matthias > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 7/7/24 6:57 AM, Chia-Ping Tsai wrote: > > > > > >>> +1 > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> thanks Dongjin to start this discussion > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On 2024/07/07 12:58:45 Dongjin Lee wrote: > > > > > >>>> Hello Kafka dev, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> I hope to start the discussion of KIP-1067: Remove > > > > > >> ReplicaVerificationTool > > > > > >>>> in 4.0 (deprecate in 3.9) > > > > > >>>> < > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=311627623 > > > > > >>> . > > > > > >>>> It replaces KIP-752: Support --bootstrap-server in > > > > > >> ReplicaVerificationTool > > > > > >>>> < > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-752%3A+Support+--bootstrap-server+in+ReplicaVerificationTool > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> . > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Thanks in advance for all discussions, feedbacks, etc. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Best, > > > > > >>>> Dongjin > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> -- > > > > > >>>> *Dongjin Lee* > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> *A hitchhiker in the mathematical world.* > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> *github: <http://goog_969573159/>github.com/dongjinleekr > > > > > >>>> <https://github.com/dongjinleekr>keybase: > > > > > >> https://keybase.io/dongjinleekr > > > > > >>>> <https://keybase.io/dongjinleekr>linkedin: > > > > > >> kr.linkedin.com/in/dongjinleekr > > > > > >>>> <https://kr.linkedin.com/in/dongjinleekr>speakerdeck: > > > > > >> speakerdeck.com/dongjin > > > > > >>>> <https://speakerdeck.com/dongjin>* > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- *Dongjin Lee* *A hitchhiker in the mathematical world.* *github: <http://goog_969573159/>github.com/dongjinleekr <https://github.com/dongjinleekr>keybase: https://keybase.io/dongjinleekr <https://keybase.io/dongjinleekr>linkedin: kr.linkedin.com/in/dongjinleekr <https://kr.linkedin.com/in/dongjinleekr>speakerdeck: speakerdeck.com/dongjin <https://speakerdeck.com/dongjin>*
