Andrey, I'm not insisting to replace dev list with Slack or always react to Slack messages. It's up to us to decide where and with what frequency to respond. My suggestion is just to have Slack as an extra tool for the Ignite dev communications (no user support).
I also prefer either email conversations (time to think, no commitments to respond ASAP) or phone calls (make things done now). But sometimes Slack comes handy. For instance, I'd like to have a faster channel to talk to Nikolay Izhikov, Anton Vinogradov or Roman Shtykh on Ignite related tasks discussed initially on the dev. - Denis On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 6:04 AM Andrey Gura <ag...@apache.org> wrote: > Why chat is called chat? [1] Just ignore modern definitions :) Chat is > "bla-bla-bla". > > IMO, there are no any pros for using Slack in order to make Ignite > Collaboration 100% Open and Transparent. Chat is just garbage of some > phrases that aren't structured into discussions (please, don't talk me > about threads in Slack, they are useless). So transparency isn't > chat's property. If some topics have parallel discussion we will have > as result something like salad "Asynchronous": > tomacucumtoes,bersmayonn,aise. Moreover, the same salad we will have > for discussion of one topic by many members. > > Mailing list is the best mean for easygoing interaction. It > asynchronous by nature and doesn't have any means for pressure to > community members (like notifications). Discussions on mailing list > are organized into threads and any new message to the thread will > follow up thread to the top of unread messages. All you need and > nothing more. > > Mailing list are indexed by search engines while Slack channels > aren't. It is stone in the garden of openтess. > > I always can refer to discussion on mailing list. But it's impossible > for discussion in Slack channel due to reasons mentioned above. > > I do not mind the idea as a whole. Chat could be nice and fun. But > openness, transparency, and also important searchability, it is all > about mailing lists, not chats. > > [1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chat > > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 12:40 AM Павлухин Иван <vololo...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > + Meeting minutes > > > > 2019-08-28 22:29 GMT+11:00, Alexey Zinoviev <zaleslaw....@gmail.com>: > > > I am totally support the idea with the planned and widely announced > Hangout > > > meeting between commiters and contributers and posting the link to the > > > dev-list with the special Topic Name and short agenda. Maybe, the > recorded > > > video could be added to the YouTube (or to another platform) to share > with > > > the community members. > > > > > > пн, 26 авг. 2019 г. в 22:23, Amit Chavan <achav...@gmail.com>: > > > > > >> Hi Denis, > > >> > > >> I really like the initiative for transparency and collaboration. Are > > >> there > > >> any plans to help get new contributors up to speed with the project > where > > >> they can contribute effectively? Sometimes it can be intimidating to > > >> start > > >> on a large project without some help or advice. Maybe assigning a > mentor > > >> or > > >> an existing committer can be useful or some slack channel people can > ping > > >> on. I am starting new on the project and have picked out newbie ticket > > >> from > > >> the Jira board. As I make myself familiar with the code base maybe its > > >> good > > >> to have some direction on which area should I focus more on etc. > > >> > > >> Thanks, > > >> Amit > > >> > > >> On Mon, Aug 26, 2019 at 11:54 AM Denis Magda <dma...@apache.org> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > Folks, let me share more details on why Anton started the > conversation > > >> > about Ignite Slack: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > http://apache-ignite-developers.2346864.n4.nabble.com/The-ASF-Slack-td43233.html > > >> > > > >> > Recently, a group of GridGain and Sberbank committers of Ignite has > met > > >> to > > >> > discuss how to make our community more transparent and open. Anton > and > > >> > I > > >> > took part in that meeting. The primary problems we see in regards to > > >> > transparency and openness are as follows: > > >> > > > >> > - A lot of discussions on the dev list abrupts suddenly and it's > > >> unclear > > >> > whether a discussion is abandoned or something else is going on > in > > >> > the > > >> > background with a task/bug/improvement. In many cases, we tend to > > >> > fall > > >> > back > > >> > to faster communication ways like instant messaging, calls, or > > >> > face-to-face > > >> > meetings that are not visible to the rest of the community. > Emails > > >> (dev > > >> > list) are the right communication channel but not for all of the > > >> stages. > > >> > - Change reviews seem to be in a chaotic state. Sometimes it > takes > > >> many > > >> > rounds for a committer to urge another committer to do a review. > In > > >> many > > >> > cases, the other committer might be simply overwhelmed with > regular > > >> > tasks > > >> > imposed by an employer. It will be good to come up with some > public > > >> > tracking approach that will help us all to see who and when will > be > > >> > able to > > >> > review certain changes and make them to Ignite. > > >> > > > >> > To address the problems we want to propose the following: > > >> > > > >> > - Keep using dev list the way you do today. No changes need to be > > >> > done > > >> > here. > > >> > - Introduce Ignite Slack for instant messaging across all the > > >> community > > >> > members who are obviously employed by different companies. Ignite > > >> > PMC > > >> > will > > >> > be managing channels for various topics. Go to Slack when email > (dev > > >> > list) > > >> > conversation is no longer effective, the way we do daily, no > need to > > >> > complicate our lives just because we work on an open-source > project > > >> > together. > > >> > - Two or more committers need to talk verbally? Go ahead and > > >> > schedule > > >> a > > >> > meeting with Google Hangouts or another tool. Send an invite to > the > > >> dev > > >> > list for those who'd like to join and listen or share opinion. > Want > > >> > to > > >> > talk > > >> > in your native language? Go ahead and put a disclaimer that a > > >> > conversation > > >> > will be in Chinese, Russia, French, whatever. Simple and open. > > >> > - Don't know how soon you'll be able to review some changes and, > > >> > thus, > > >> > ignoring other committers requests? GridGain and Sberbank are > ready > > >> > to > > >> > propose a solution here. Both vendors use an approach to > cooperate > > >> > between > > >> > GridGain and Sberbank committers. Now we'd like to make it fully > > >> > open > > >> > and > > >> > adjust for community needs if required. > > >> > > > >> > Thoughts, suggestions? I think we'll schedule a community meeting to > > >> finish > > >> > the conversation or discuss any cornerstone points. But start with > your > > >> > questions first. > > >> > > > >> > - > > >> > Denis > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > Best regards, > > Ivan Pavlukhin >
