Ugh, I think I sent from the wrong email address and my reply didn't go
through.

Other people have covered the same things here, except for one point: the
Avro spec states that readers that don't support an annotation are required
to ignore it
<https://avro.apache.org/docs/1.11.1/specification/#logical-types>. So the
behavior to read either date or int correctly is inherited from the Avro
spec.

Ryan

On Thu, May 21, 2026 at 10:17 AM Kevin Liu <[email protected]> wrote:

> I wasn’t aware of the previous back-and-forth changes to this line in the
> spec. Thanks for the extra context!
>
> A couple of points I want to align on:
> 1. All implementations except Go, including Java, Python, and Rust, write
> the day transform result as an Iceberg date type. That maps to the Avro
> date type and is serialized as { "type": "int", "logicalType": "date" }.
> 2. The Go implementation writes the day transform result an Iceberg int
> type. That maps to the Avro int type and is serialized as { "type": "int" }.
> 3. Java, Python, and Rust can read Avro manifest partition values as
> either an Avro int type or an Avro date type.
> 4. The Go implementation can currently read Avro manifest partition values
> only as an Avro int type. This is the original issue that sparked this
> conversation.
>
> Since the spec has gone back and forth between writing this as an Iceberg
> int and an Iceberg date, I think readers must accept both. We can include
> that as an implementation note.
>
> I support changing the spec back to date so it matches the default
> behavior for day partition values in our implementations. Go is also
> making the change to write date instead of int.
> The other approach, updating all implementations to match the current
> spec, would be a lot of work for little value.
>
> Hopefully this is the last time we make this change to the spec :)
> Would love to hear from others.
>
> Best,
> Kevin Liu
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 10:39 AM Fokko Driesprong <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> > It wouldn't be the first time we've retroactively updated the spec when
>> finding inconsistencies with the current implementations :P
>>
>> I think generally we try to avoid this, but in this case it was changed
>> to few times :P Maybe we should revert the spec change:
>>
>>
>> https://github.com/apache/iceberg/pull/5980/changes#diff-36347a47c3bf67ea2ef6309ea96201814032d21bb5f162dfae4045508c15588a
>>
>> Curious to hear what other think.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Fokko
>>
>>
>> On 2026/05/20 17:24:22 Matt Topol wrote:
>> > It wouldn't be the first time we've retroactively updated the spec
>> > when finding inconsistencies with the current implementations :P
>> >
>> > Particularly, in this case even the "reference implementation" (i.e.
>> > Java) is technically not spec-compliant since the spec says that it
>> > should be an "int", not an Avro "date" type. If all the
>> > implementations currently write a "date" type, then it's silly to have
>> > to say that every implementation is violating the spec.
>> >
>> > If we want the spec to say it should be an int, but tolerate reading
>> > an Avro "date" type, that's fine. But that would mean we should update
>> > Java, Rust, and PyIceberg to all write plain "int" and no longer write
>> > the "date" type, again: it would be silly to say that the reference
>> > implementation and 2 other implementations are not following the spec.
>> > :P
>> >
>> > I agree that it would be a big change for little value to update the
>> > implementations, so my opinion is that the spec should be updated to
>> > either say that "either" is allowed to be written, or that "date"
>> > should be written but "int" should be allowed to be read.
>> >
>> > --Matt
>> >
>> > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 1:05 PM Fokko Driesprong <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for the quick PR Andrei.
>> > >
>> > > The problem is that the note conflicts with the Avro/Iceberg types
>> table: https://iceberg.apache.org/spec/#avro
>> > >
>> > > I don't think we want to update the implementations as I agree that
>> it would be a big change for little value. At the same time, I don't think
>> we can retroactively update the spec. Maybe an implementation note would be
>> a better solution to halt the tradition?
>> > >
>> > > Kind regards,
>> > > Fokko
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 2026/05/20 16:49:29 Andrei Tserakhau via dev wrote:
>> > > > Thanks Fokko, the historical context!
>> > > >
>> > > > Quick check that we're aligned, since I think we may be closer than
>> > > > it reads:
>> > > >
>> > > > My PR leaves the result type table as `int` -- no change to the
>> > > > transform table, no impact on hour/month/etc., no change to the
>> > > > type model.
>> > > >
>> > > > What the PR clarifies is the Avro encoding used when serializing a
>> > > > `day` partition field into a manifest. Empirically today, Java,
>> > > > PyIceberg, and Rust all write `{ "type": "int", "logicalType":
>> "date" }`
>> > > > there (TypeToSchema in Java, DayTransform.result_type in PyIceberg,
>> > > > Transform::Day.result_type in Rust all produce a Date). Only
>> > > > iceberg-go produces plain Avro `int`. The PR codifies the de facto
>> > > > writer behavior as SHOULD and makes reader tolerance MUST.
>> > > >
>> > > > If your "stick with int" also covers the Avro annotation, then we'd
>> > > > effectively be reverting three writers and orphaning every existing
>> > > > manifest, which I don't think decent path, it's quite a big change
>> > > > for small benefits.
>> > > >
>> > > > Either way, super happy to adjust the spec adjustment, the goal is
>> to
>> > > > stop this tradition of re-litigating issue every year, by misreading
>> > > > this part of the spec.
>> > > >
>> > > > Best,
>> > > > Andrei
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 6:37 PM Fokko Driesprong <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Thanks for briging this up Kevin, a gift that keeps on giving :)
>> > > > >
>> https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/10616#issuecomment-2200191427
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 1. I think we should stick with the int type as defined in the
>> spec.
>> > > > > 2. It feels to me that some readers are more permissive here than
>> others.
>> > > > > I believe some allow reading date as an int without throwing.
>> Practically,
>> > > > > readers should read both.
>> > > > > 3. Unfortunally, I think this is water under the bridge. As shown
>> above in
>> > > > > the GitHub Issue, we went back and forth, so I don't see a lot of
>> value in
>> > > > > switching this to date. All OSS implementations handle this as an
>> int
>> > > > > internally, and this also aligns with hour/month/etc.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope this historical context helps.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Kind regards,
>> > > > > Fokko
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 2026/05/20 16:33:51 Andrei Tserakhau via dev wrote:
>> > > > > > Here is a fast follow with a PR:
>> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/iceberg/pull/16446
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Best,
>> > > > > > Andrei
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, May 20, 2026 at 6:11 PM Andrei Tserakhau <
>> > > > > > [email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Thanks for raising this, Kevin.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Speaking as an iceberg-go maintainer, even though Go is the
>> > > > > > > implementation that has to move, I'd vote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > 1. Writers SHOULD emit { "type": "int", "logicalType": "date"
>> }.
>> > > > > > > 2. Readers MUST accept both plain `int` and `int` annotated
>> with
>> > > > > > >    `logicalType: date`.
>> > > > > > > 3. Keep the transform result type table as-is (`int` as the
>> logical
>> > > > > > >    Iceberg type). Don't change it to `date`. Add a separate,
>> normative
>> > > > > > >    manifest-encoding clause so projection and
>> expression-evaluation
>> > > > > > >    semantics that depend on the type model stay untouched.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Reasoning: when Java, PyIceberg, and Rust all write logical
>> `date`,
>> > > > > > > that's the de facto wire format. Forcing them to switch to
>> plain `int`
>> > > > > > > to match a literal reading of the transform table would churn
>> three
>> > > > > > > implementations and leave every existing manifest
>> "non-conforming"
>> > > > > > > forever. Aligning Go with the dominant writer convention
>> costs one
>> > > > > > > implementation change (PR #915 already proposes it) and zero
>> historical
>> > > > > > > churn.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > The underlying ambiguity is that "result type" (logical
>> Iceberg type)
>> > > > > > > and "Avro manifest encoding" (wire format) were conflated.
>> Separating
>> > > > > > > them in spec text removes the ambiguity without changing the
>> type
>> > > > > > > system.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Happy to drive the spec PR and then iceberg-go writer + reader
>> > > > > > > alignment.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Best,
>> > > > > > > Andrei
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Tue, May 19, 2026 at 5:45 PM Kevin Liu <
>> [email protected]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >> Hi all,
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I'd like to invite the community to discuss a spec ambiguity
>> in Apache
>> > > > > > >> Iceberg that has caused some confusion across
>> implementations. We've
>> > > > > seen
>> > > > > > >> this come up in Python, Rust, and now Go.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> The issue: the spec documents the `day` partition
>> transform's result
>> > > > > type
>> > > > > > >> as plain `int`, but Java, PyIceberg, and Rust all write
>> manifest
>> > > > > partition
>> > > > > > >> fields using Avro's logical `date` type. Go currently writes
>> plain
>> > > > > `int`,
>> > > > > > >> which is the strict reading of the spec. Since both forms
>> have the
>> > > > > same
>> > > > > > >> physical representation, the difference is only the Avro
>> schema
>> > > > > annotation
>> > > > > > >> -- but it's worth clarifying the spec so all implementations
>> are
>> > > > > aligned.
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> The full analysis, including a breakdown of each
>> implementation's
>> > > > > > >> writer/reader behavior and proposed resolution options, is
>> here:
>> > > > > > >> https://github.com/apache/iceberg/issues/16414
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> At a high level, the questions for the community are:
>> > > > > > >> 1. What should implementations write: Avro `int` (plain
>> integer) or
>> > > > > Avro
>> > > > > > >> `date` (integer with a date logical type)?
>> > > > > > >> 2. Should implementations be required to read both forms, or
>> just
>> > > > > > >> encouraged to?
>> > > > > > >> 3. Should the spec's transform result type table be updated
>> from
>> > > > > `int` to
>> > > > > > >> `date`?
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks!
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >> Best,
>> > > > > > >> Kevin Liu
>> > > > > > >>
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> >
>>
>

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