@chesnay I'm not sure, however, I don't know what we could do to improve the situation that wouldn't effectively be copying those vendors docs into our own.
One option would be to do exactly that, but then I feel like we are committing to tracking changes on those systems and I just don't know how feasible that is. I am personally still in favor of the removal of all three but as a compromise, we could replace these pages with a "Vendor" page that just links to the appropriate docs for these services. It could also include the most basic Filesystem information that @ufuk mentioned. That still leaves an open question of who we allow. Just the cloud providers or also others like Cloudera and Ververica? For AWS only EMR or also Kinesis Data Analytics, etc. On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:25 AM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> wrote: > The bounce rate of these pages is not particularly bad. > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 3:48 PM Trevor Grant <trevor.d.gr...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > You can infer that by looking at the "bounce rate" eg someone gets to the > > page, looks at it, realizes its trash and clicks "back". > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 8:46 AM Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Question now is whether the numbers are so low because the docs aren't > > > required or because they are so bad. > > > > > > On 05/12/2019 14:26, Robert Metzger wrote: > > > > I just checked GA: > > > > > > > > All numbers are for the last month, independent of the Flink version: > > > > aws.html: 918 pageviews > > > > mapr_setup.html: 108 pageviews > > > > gce_setup.html: 256 pageviews > > > > > > > > Some other deployment-related pages for reference: > > > > yarn_setup: 4687 > > > > cluster: 4284 > > > > kubernetes: 3428 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 1:53 PM Trevor Grant < > trevor.d.gr...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> Same as Ufuk (non-binding) > > > >> > > > >> In general, docs pages are great "first commits" to leave out there > as > > > >> newb-issues. > > > >> > > > >> Also though, worth checking how often people use the page (e.g. GA) > > > >> > > > >> 3rd option: add a `.bu` to AWS/GCE pages and open a JIRA ticket to > fix > > > them > > > >> (and put a readme explaining why they are in `.bu` status (which > > should > > > >> prevent the build from picking them up), in essence, you're > commenting > > > them > > > >> all out until someone can come around fix them. > > > >> > > > >> Further, I would put a holder page in their place that says > something > > > like, > > > >> "This works, but we need someone to update the docs- check out JIRA > > XXXX > > > >> for more details", might get someone to clean em up sooner w a > little > > > >> advertising. > > > >> > > > >> Just my .02 > > > >> > > > >> I can't do full overhauls right now, but I could execute the > "comment > > > out" > > > >> option if it comes to that. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 6:35 AM Ufuk Celebi <u...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> +1 to drop the MapR page. > > > >>> > > > >>> For the other two I'm +0. I fully agree that the linked AWS and GCE > > > pages > > > >>> are in bad shape and don't relate to a component developed by the > > > >>> community. Do we have any numbers from Google Analytics on how > > popular > > > >>> those pages are? If they are somewhat popular, I would prefer to > "fix > > > >> them" > > > >>> to be good starting points for users in those environments > (probably > > by > > > >>> boiling them down to saying something simple such as "You should > use > > > >>> FileSystem [...] and point it to [...]."). > > > >>> > > > >>> – Ufuk > > > >>> > > > >>> On Thu, Dec 5, 2019 at 10:49 AM Till Rohrmann < > trohrm...@apache.org> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>> If the community cannot manage to keep the vendor-specific > > > >> documentation > > > >>> up > > > >>>> to date, then I believe it is better to drop it. Hence +1 for the > > > >>> proposal. > > > >>>> Cheers, > > > >>>> Till > > > >>>> > > > >>>> On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 3:12 PM Aljoscha Krettek < > > aljos...@apache.org> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>>> +1 > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Best, > > > >>>>> Aljoscha > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> On 2. Dec 2019, at 18:38, Konstantin Knauf < > > > >> konstan...@ververica.com > > > >>>>> wrote: > > > >>>>>> +1 from my side to drop. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2019 at 6:34 PM Seth Wiesman < > sjwies...@gmail.com> > > > >>> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> Hi all, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I'd like to discuss dropping vendor-specific deployment > > > >>> documentation > > > >>>>> from > > > >>>>>>> Flink's official docs. To be clear, I am *NOT* suggesting we > drop > > > >>> any of > > > >>>>>>> the filesystem documentation, but the following three pages. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> AWS: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/aws.html > > > >>>>>>> Google Compute Engine: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/gce_setup.html > > > >>>>>>> MapR: > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > https://ci.apache.org/projects/flink/flink-docs-master/ops/deployment/mapr_setup.html > > > >>>>>>> Unlike the filesystems, these docs do not refer to components > > > >>>>> maintained by > > > >>>>>>> the Apache Flink community, but external commercial services > and > > > >>>>> products. > > > >>>>>>> None of these pages are well maintained and I do not think the > > > >>>>> open-source > > > >>>>>>> community can reasonably be expected to keep them up to date. > In > > > >>>>>>> particular, > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> - The AWS page contains sparse information and mostly just > > links > > > >>> to > > > >>>>> the > > > >>>>>>> official EMR docs. > > > >>>>>>> - The Google Compute Engine page is out of date and the > > commands > > > >>> do > > > >>>>> not > > > >>>>>>> work. > > > >>>>>>> - MapR contains some relevant information but the community > > has > > > >>>>> already > > > >>>>>>> dropped the MapR filesystem so I am not sure that deployment > > > >> would > > > >>>>> work > > > >>>>>>> (I > > > >>>>>>> have not tested). > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> There is also a larger question of which vendor products should > > be > > > >>>>> included > > > >>>>>>> and which should not. That is why I would like to suggest > > dropping > > > >>> these > > > >>>>>>> pages and referring users to vendor maintained documentation > > > >>> whenever > > > >>>>> they > > > >>>>>>> are using one of these services. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Seth Wiesman > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Konstantin Knauf | Solutions Architect > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> +49 160 91394525 > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Follow us @VervericaData Ververica <https://www.ververica.com/> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Join Flink Forward <https://flink-forward.org/> - The Apache > > Flink > > > >>>>>> Conference > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Stream Processing | Event Driven | Real Time > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Ververica GmbH | Invalidenstrasse 115, 10115 Berlin, Germany > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> -- > > > >>>>>> Ververica GmbH > > > >>>>>> Registered at Amtsgericht Charlottenburg: HRB 158244 B > > > >>>>>> Managing Directors: Timothy Alexander Steinert, Yip Park Tung > > > >> Jason, > > > >>> Ji > > > >>>>>> (Tony) Cheng > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > > >
