Ok let's step back and have a look at this. First of all, I walked in a bit too strong to begin with, that was on January 17th. I am not going to apologize again, or justify with the fact I am taking all the pressure everyone else bails out from, and without being head first I would not have gotten through 5 years of it. It is my fight, which I picked, I will suck it up and keep going. So no F word, s and h an * and t, or other Frenc langual specialties.
However, when I am being asked to make a point, it is a lost cause to try to stop me half way when things do not go the way part of the audience would like it to. >From Erik, the very first message after my initial email: "Also, on a personal note: if you make statements like "HTML5 failed," I would ask you to provide references, or you risk being labelled a troll, I'm afraid. EdB" Then, from Erik again came what I sense to be the core of issue: "All kidding aside, whatever comes out of this initiative, it is clear that the effort involved will be huge. Also, as this only tangentially concerns Apache Flex, I don't think it can be a sub-project - keep in mind there are already 2 sub-projects devoted to making Apache Flex independent of the Flash Player: FlexJS and VF2JS. So, my suggestion is that Stephane sets up a Github project and starts getting together developers and other resources from that base. This list is not a soapbox where you can rant against the evil empires that supposedly ruined our favorite toy, nor is it a recruitment platform for other open source projects." So let me be clear, I do not care what Apache agenda for Flex is with JS, but someone would have to be delusional to think I will be sweaped away like this just because I am not carrying the water. I am a warrior, not a water carrier. That is all I have to say about it. -S On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:53 PM, Héctor A <neverbi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Just a note: even if MS has released the source for most of the .NET > ecosystem, they are not accepting contributions for a lot (all?) of the > projects. > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 2:57 AM, Angelo Anolin <angelo.ano...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > With most enterprise (MS on .NET, Google on Angular, Facebook on React), > I > > think it should just follow that Adobe perhaps start the process of > having > > Flash open sourced so that all possible enhancements and security patches > > it needs can be performed by a community that believes in its > capabilities > > - in media and enterprise. > > > > Funny as a moment ago, I was just watching some video about Facebook's > > React framework and their mantra was - "Learn Once, Write Anywhere". > Wasn't > > this already the option offered by Flex/AS3 even before the boom of > > fragmented devices/OS? The only thing that separates with this native > > frameworks is that Flex/AS3 requires a closed Adobe plugin, whilst the JS > > frameworks are open, but still dependent on what the browser could offer > in > > terms of compatibility and implementation. > > > > Nonetheless, I still believe and this will hold true that Flex is the > best > > platform to build enterprise, business-level application. 95% of > businesses > > won't care what technology stack an application was build, nor the > platform > > it is being delivered. If it performs the functionality desired and > solves > > real world business problems, then they are more likely to approve of > that > > project. > > > > I hope this project pushes through - to bring a new breathe of life for > > Flex app development. The functionality offered by Flex out of the box is > > simply too good to be left out for consideration in the realms of > > enterprise software development. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 4:18 PM, Carlos Velasco < > > carlos.velasco.bla...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > I think the flex framework and universe needs to pass a rebranding > > process > > > to separate itself from the Adobe products past and future destiny. I > > mean, > > > it is no more an Adobe product, but a new one with its own lifecycle... > > So, > > > moving to a new brand would throw away every Adobe's bad inheritances > > from > > > the past. > > > > > > The product, in my opinion, should focus on covering what it was made > for > > > (and Adobe always failed to get the world to fully understand); what > is: > > > Heavy Enterprise Rich Internet Applications. > > > > > > I mean. JS is for web development and so it should be, but it becomes a > > > nightmare when used in complex applications. That is where FLEX is the > > best > > > technology, and so it should take its market. > > > > > > I also think that if the community is to be taken in a serious way, it > > > should refactor some other things: > > > > > > - Create an open source virtual machine maintained by the community. > > > (Please run away from the Player word at the name, it is not a serious > > > name), but depending on Adobe is the tomb way in the near future. > > > > > > - Expand the AS language to get improvements and a roadmap. > > > > > > - Forget about basic web features and be centered in the big companies > > > world. > > > > > > - Encourage web developers to adopt JS or others as their platform. > Focus > > > on enterprise developments where a big team is required to get the > goal. > > > > > > - Clean the Framework API and extend it. > > > > > > > > > Flex was sold as the Web Technology for every project, so it got many > > > enemies in the way, but Adobe failed defending the product. Now the new > > > Apache product has to find its place in the market, needs a lot of > > > reliability from big companies, and having the Adobe's past so present > is > > > resting so much to the technology's future. > > > > > > Do you agree? > > > > > > > > > > > > 2015-02-23 17:04 GMT-03:00 Stephane Beladaci < > > adobeflexengin...@gmail.com > > > >: > > > > > > > David, your suggested approach is actually being attempted by a > client > > > > of mine, assuming I understand it correctly. I would be interested in > > > > getting involved and have a look at what you did so far. At this > point > > > > I think the discussion is going to have to lead to a few labs > > > > experiments, I am setting up some infrastructure for source code > > > > management, code review, and community management. Maybe your > approach > > > > is a good candidate for one of those labs. Feel free to contact me > > > > directly for details, we will then circle back to the mailing list > > > > with relevant info or topic open to discussion, that way we don't > > > > saturate the conversation. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:37 PM, <f...@dfguy.us> wrote: > > > > > I really think Stephane makes some great points. It's a good idea > > > though > > > > to keep things constructive and on topic in regards to Flex too as > Erik > > > > mentioned. > > > > > > > > > > While work on a different player seems to have been something > > actively > > > > tried a few times, what I've been pondering is possibly trying to > cross > > > > compile one of the browser sources to as3. That way we could leverage > > all > > > > of the good things about the web standards within a flex or air app. > > Some > > > > of the built in HTML views have a lot of limitations so this might > > allow > > > > for reusing a lit of the existing code out there, or combining > project > > > > assets into a single codebase. > > > > > > > > > > I've done some initial work on it but don't have anything completed > > as > > > > of yet. > > > > > > > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Stephane Beladaci <adobeflexengin...@gmail.com> > > > > > To: dev <dev@flex.apache.org> > > > > > Sent: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 1:24 PM > > > > > Subject: Re: "The Player", a case for an independent Flash Player > > > > > > > > > > I understand the possible distraction from the objective of the > > > > > mailing list, however it is concentrated on a single message thread > > > > > that anyone can easily ignore. It is also important to identify the > > > > > concerns and criticism from the community in order to define the > > right > > > > > path for an alternative player in an attempt to bridge the gap > > between > > > > > what Adobe seems incapable of accomplishing, what the browser war > > > > > render nearly impossible to accomplish, what the Jobs' Apple tries > to > > > > > kill, and what the new Apple makes possible. > > > > > > > > > > You simply cannot consider the work, and future of Flex developers > > > > > without to have a holistic approach, analysis and understanding of > > the > > > > > business, corporate and technological of the developer communities, > > > > > browsers landscape, and app marketplaces. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:13 PM, Erik de Bruin <e...@ixsoftware.nl > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> This discussion was intended to start the development of a Flash > > > > >> Player alternative, and as such got a preliminary pass on being OT > > for > > > > >> this list. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think it has ended up being just a "bash the Player, Adobe, > Apple > > > > >> and all let's include all browser vendors for good measure" > thread, > > so > > > > >> I, again, respectfully ask that it is continued on another forum. > > > > >> > > > > >> This list is the dev list for the Apache Flex project, all > > discussion > > > > >> on it should at least be tangentially related to that topic. > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks, > > > > >> > > > > >> EdB > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:32 PM, Stephane Beladaci > > > > >> <adobeflexengin...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > >>> The "proprietary" tiny bit of the player, which is a fraction of > > the > > > > >>> whole Flash ecosystem mostly open source, is precisely what made > > it a > > > > >>> success and what made JS a failure. JS implementation is left to > > the > > > > >>> browser, and you can be sure they will use that last word to > screw > > > > >>> each other, block each other, and make sure the browser never > > compete > > > > >>> with their app store. We have seen it over and over, bugs marked > by > > > > >>> Apple "no to be fixed" by executive order to refrain Facebook > from > > > > >>> building its HTML5 game platform codename "spartan"; H264 yanked > by > > > > >>> Google to block Apple and MS. Safari on iOS 7 called by HTML5 > > expert > > > > >>> "the buggiest mobile Safari ever". > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Meanwhile Adobe keep adding features and move forward with no > > block, > > > > >>> no endless discussions and no matter the constant complaining > from > > > the > > > > >>> developers community never happy with what we got, the player and > > AIR > > > > >>> are still half to full decade ahead of any <whatever>.JS > technology > > > > >>> with decent browser penetration. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> It is because of the proprietary piece of the Flash player that > the > > > > >>> same hypocrite browser vendors cannot mess with it, and Apple had > > to > > > > >>> ban it entirely to avoid having the Flash Platform take over its > > > > >>> AppStore with Flash 9, AS3, Flex and AIR. Good news is, that ban > > > > >>> exposed Apple much more than merely messing with JS > implementation, > > > > >>> and I believe there is an antitrust class action lawsuit that can > > be > > > > >>> pushed by the Flash developer community. If I successfully lead > > this > > > > >>> to court, the discovery process might expose the whole nasty > > Silicon > > > > >>> Valley browser war. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> As far as security is concerned, my guess is that it is all a > > > question > > > > >>> of popularity, when every page on the web will contain HTML5 ads > > with > > > > >>> JS pushed to the limit as replacement for Flash, you will see JS > > > > >>> security risk rise to the sky. It already started, most security > > > > >>> reports warn of the HTML5 security risk. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 3:49 PM, <f...@dfguy.us> wrote: > > > > >>>> That's probably true but what I'm wondering though is does this > > > > actually help right? So if Mozilla is then maintaining the code then > > it's > > > > dependent on them to fix any security flaws in terms of their own > > release > > > > cycle for fixes. Plus the ability of the implementation is again > > > dependent > > > > on whatever capabilities exist in the browser as the runtime like you > > > > mentioned. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> So what is occurring to me is that most likely media like that > > > outlet > > > > just don't like the idea of a "proprietary" runtime that's supported > > and > > > > maintained by a company in general, so it's sort of cool to promote > an > > > > implementation by another company that's not deemed to be as > > proprietary > > > > like Mozilla. It's sort of an ideological argument I think that's > > really > > > at > > > > the root of all this stuff. I think there have been a bunch of swf > > > players > > > > out there for years right? But if this could allow all of that > content > > to > > > > be played on iPads or etc then I'm sure it would help out. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> No one seems to care about all the other proprietary runtimes > out > > > > there, or Apple's closed environment, or Android or anything else > being > > > > closed in varying forms, or that whole Mozilla DRM plugin or etc. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> David > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> -----Original Message----- > > > > >>>> From: Tom Chiverton <t...@extravision.com> > > > > >>>> To: dev@flex.apache.org > > > > >>>> Sent: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 9:23 AM > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: "The Player", a case for an independent Flash > Player > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I think The Register's angle is the Adobe implementation of the > > > Flash > > > > >>>> runtime is bad and full of security issues. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> In theory Shumay runs in the JavaScript sandbox, so inherits all > > the > > > > >>>> protections and 'many eyes' of previous work on securing it. > > > > >>>> When was the last time there was a off-by-one arbitrary code > > > execution > > > > >>>> issue in a major JavaScript implementation ? > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Tom > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> Ix Multimedia Software > > > > >> > > > > >> Jan Luykenstraat 27 > > > > >> 3521 VB Utrecht > > > > >> > > > > >> T. 06-51952295 > > > > >> I. www.ixsoftware.nl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
