then IMHO some chinese speaking people should start writing a little introduction on community.apache.org, like newcomers [1], newbiefaq [2]
IIRC, any ASF committer can edit the site once a few pages are available, then they could be referenced from classical english site and we can work on creating a chinese-language mailing list That's how I see the process, but I won't be able to do anything about it, since I don't speak chinese :) (and I don't think there is such a strong need for a french equivalent) Regards, Hervé [1] http://community.apache.org/newcomers/ [2] http://community.apache.org/newbiefaq.html Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 13:53:03 Ted Liu a écrit : > Thank Niclas and Hervé, It is excited to see the great ideas to start with. > If needed, we can help crowdsource for contributions in China and it is > very likely to excite and attract many talented young people to contribute. > > Other than the great content, email list, webpage, etc., we can also help > from user experience side, such as pages in Chinese for mobile or a Wechat > public account for news, blogs publishing or other services, and social > interactions thru Wechat or QQ, such as allowing any Chinese Apache fans to > retweet and socialize great articles. > p.s. The reason why a Wechat public account is a big plus because it is used > by 500M Wechat chatters on daily basis to acquire/learn information. This > is a very effective China-specific scenario. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:56 PM > To: dev@community.apache.org > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache China > Community > thinking more about it > > Imagine: > - a few localized pages in > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7 > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7 > pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d about tooling, culture and so on + mailing list to > interact - as a first step, previous localized team could provide a little > localized page to each classical TLP (managed primarily in english) to > explain the purpose of the TLP and how they can contact localized > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.org&dat > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7 > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqqO0quW2NRyF45mpfx7 > pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d to get help to interact with the TLP > IMHO, it's not about translating everything in every TLP: it's about putting > in every TLP (starting with > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data=01%7 > c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f > 988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn0zU%2fKsXoeT > kFfi3ED5k%3d and > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org&dat > a=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7 > %7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHjEmc7jGf7xoXS > RA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d) a localized pointer to localized helpers in > community.apache.org. > Of course, if the localized team grows big, they can engage more > translations on some TLPs. > Then +1 to creating ch...@community.apache.org + > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a > pache.org%2fchina.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c373953 > 5c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=OlA9 > hXKy5wFT2z%2fPNWm%2f%2fRl%2bLcCLvKxI7DwDoZVYvsE%3d to explain the concept > And probably > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunity.a > pache.org%2finternational.html&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com% > 7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sd > ata=o%2bhr%2b0B77v2nXFdQsAoby8ISqKHYky4i5Sluma9ViyE%3d to point to every > localization where this process is started > Notice: instead of "china" = a country name in english, we should name it > after language: ISO-639 alpha-3 codes seem a better choice > IMHO, easy to start and see which locales get traction > > Regards, > > Hervé > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 19:34:11 Niclas Hedhman a écrit : > > > I agree that translated content is a great start, if there is enough > > energy for it. > > > > There are three main "entry points" into Apache outside of the > > projects themselves; > > > > a. > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.apache.org&data= > > 01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2f26ac9 > > d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1owk036Iz0L7CvCjYK79VJYn > > 0zU%2fKsXoeTkFfi3ED5k%3d b. > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=incubator.apache.org > > &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f23100108d2 > > f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=ZvN%2ftVv2eINlLZHj > > Emc7jGf7xoXSRA6MXUtczeSshXk%3d c. > > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010 > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d > > > > As far as I know, the actual content is in some markdown text format, > > and should be relatively easy to get going page by page, and I am sure > > Infrastructure will be able to let us know where to put it, and link > > it into the user experience "somehow". > > > > That content alone are probably volunteer-months worth of work, > > especially since I think peer review is very important, since language > > matters for policy and such. > > > > *I* am also very positive to alternate language > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=community.apache.or > > g&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c3739535c7a0d4f2310010 > > 8d2f26ac9d7%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2fZti2MXsNqq > > O0quW2NRyF45mpfx7pTE14aitDzC3nVk%3d > > mailing lists. ch...@community.apache.org could be a start, and from > > there it should be possible to gauge the interest. > > > > For the rest of ComDev; I was added to the WeChat (a Chinese > > WhatsApp-like > > app) group that is now 360 people. If the chatter there could be > > directed to ch...@community.apache.org, we would possibly have a > > semi-busy list from the start. > > > > > > Niclas > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Ted Liu <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > > > Yes, agreed. We can help motivate people, maybe crowdsourcing, here > > > to help translate. But need to consider what contents and a > > > streamline user experience. Ted > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ross Gardler [mailto:ross.gard...@microsoft.com] > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 7:00 PM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > Subject: RE: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > > > China Community > > > > > > Localized content is a great suggestion. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Hervé BOUTEMY [mailto:herve.bout...@free.fr] > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:58 AM > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - Apache > > > China Community > > > > > > I like the idea of doing something to better engage with China or > > > India or "country of your choice" people interested in Open Source > > > but not able currently because of language and cultural barriers for > > > masses > > > > > > But when I read "forming the Apache China Community", I read forming > > > something completely separate, and eventually forming a separate TLP: > > > staying short, I'm not convinced > > > > > > What about creating localized content in > > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fcommunit > > > y. > > > apache.org%2f&data=01%7c01%7cRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7c3f189780 > > > a87344 > > > cabc1608d2f262b677%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=1Rvs > > > CGO3%2 fEVJ6QXQEt%2bBcV%2bVlrhqAXHD1jAPYGjUZ6w%3d , pointing to > > > dedicated non-english language mailing lists, focused on explaining > > > community aspects, how to engage with Apache projects and to deal > > > with the fact that Apache projects are done in english? > > > > > > Because I don't see: > > > - how we could do localized lists for every Apache TLP > > > - how we could do a TLP that we can't interact with in english (I > > > can say it because I'm not native english: english language is our > > > minimum common convention, and it cost me to learn it :) ) > > > > > > But perhaps existing community TLP could have localized sub-projects > > > (taking the form of content + mailing lists, but not code) targeted > > > at helping people work with other TLPs > > > > > > WDYT? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Hervé > > > > > > Le samedi 21 novembre 2015 18:14:11 Ted Dunning a écrit : > > > > > > > Ted, > > > > > > > > It is not clear that what you want to happen is not happening. > > > > > > > > There does seem to be an open discussion. Here and elsewhere. > > > > > > > > What exactly do you want to happen? > > > > > > > > What good thing is not happening? > > > > > > > > What bad thing is happening? > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Nov 21, 2015, at 17:58, Ted Liu <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Niclas, > > > > > > > > > > It'd be appreciated an open and constructive discussion can be > > > > > formed at ASF instead of labeling or stereotyping. The ask of > > > > > forming of a community, group or alike in China comes from the > > > > > grass-root idea and action because there are strong demands here. > > > > > Otherwise nobody would care and nobody could be instructed or > > > > > directed. That’s the reason why a group of Chinese ASF members, > > > > > PMC members, committers, contributors, etc., want to work > > > > > together voluntarily to change the status quo by bridging the > > > > > Chinese talents and good projects to/from ASF. The motivation > > > > > and enablement of the local community/group will be mainly from > > > > > the experienced Chinese ASF members, committers and > > > > > contributors, who people will trust, > > > > > > > > > instead of any individual new to ASF. > > > > > > > > > > > Talking about the language barrier, you should already know how > > > > > difficult it is to learn Chinese after living 4+ years in Shanghai. > > > > > One recent example is that literally no one from the Apache Fans > > > > > Wechat social group > > > > > (360 people now) responded to your proposal, in English, to hold > > > > > a technical meetup in Shanghai. Your ASF status and the fact of > > > > > your location in Shanghai do not automatically translate into > > > > > trust and effective communication to enable and motivate > > > > > people's actions. The wait of a good machine translation is an > > > > > unknown that younger generation contributors would not tolerate. > > > > > > > > > > The more challenging part is the culture differences where the > > > > > sense of community, governance, contribution and the Apache Way > > > > > are still at infant stage in China. There are more than enough > > > > > good codes and events (conferences, meetups, etc.) in China. The > > > > > real blockers are language and non-Apache-Way culture where the > > > > > proposed China community/group can contribute. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Niclas Hedhman [mailto:hedh...@gmail.com] > > > > > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2015 3:02 PM > > > > > To: dev@community.apache.org > > > > > Subject: Re: Forming a community of Apache fans in China - > > > > > Apache China Community > > > > > > > > > > Ted, > > > > > 2 things... > > > > > > > > > > 1. There were Apache Roadshows in Shanghai in 2010 and 2011. > > > > > > > > > > 2. I am glad to see your enthusiasm of forming/creating > > > > > organization. But the ASF and many other open source projects > > > > > are not command&control driven top-down structures. So, there is > > > > > very little "need" for "creation of communities". They either > > > > > form, or they > > > > > > > > > don't. > > > > > > > > > > > I was happy to see that the younger generation at the Roadshow > > > > > in Beijing grasped that idea very well, whereas the somewhat > > > > > older generation had a more top-down approach, of wanting to > > > > > build it like a company, like a government or a religious > > > > > organization. I hope that you can appreciate the difference and > > > > > channel your enthusiasm > > > > > > > > > slightly differently. > > > > > > > > > > > Like you, I think language barrier is currently a big barrier, > > > > > but I have first hand witnessed the improvements in online > > > > > translation services in the past few years. Enormous > > > > > improvement. Perhaps we are soon at a stage where this can be an > > > > > additional tool to bridge this > > > > > > > > > gap. > > > > > > > > > > > My suggestions are towards localized meetups, where discussion, > > > > > hacking, presentations are conducted, by the participants, for > > > > > the participants, a peer-to-peer environment. Apache doesn't > > > > > need to be formally involved in this, but I am sure many Apache > > > > > contributors would be happy to participate, as peers, in such > > > > > events/clubs. And I am convinced this will spin off both > > > > > projects as well as dieect contribution to ASF and other projects. > > > > > > > > > > Be an igniter, not a driver. Ignite many small efforts, instead > > > > > of single big one. > > > > > > > > > > Keep up the positive work. > > > > > > > > > > Niclas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 21, 2015 13:18, "Ted Liu" <t...@microsoft.com> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> Hi Apache Community Development PMC, > > > > >> > > > > >> Wish to get some advices on how to form a community of Apache > > > > >> fans in China. Would a new China-specific project at the ComDev > > > > >> be > > > > > > > > > possible? > > > > > > > > > > >> Please see the background and thoughts outlined below. > > > > >> > > > > >> Apache projects and technologies have been widely adopted in > > > > >> China, such as Alibaba, Tencent, many enterprises, academic and > > > > >> public > > > > > > > > > services. > > > > > > > > > > >> However, there has been little engagement between ASF and > > > > >> communities and enterprises in China. We, at KAIYUANSHE > > > > >> (https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.kaiyuanshe. > > > > >> > > > > >> org > > > > >> &data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457 > > > > >> b6ef > > > > >> 408 > > > > >> d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=c9Ihr4C > > > > >> J2iF > > > > >> CsX > > > > >> asJ0NpZBeqxTGgpQ638b2fQFrfo1Y%3d< > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2 > > > > >> fwww > > > > >> .ka > > > > >> iyuanshe.org&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d > > > > >> 98c2 > > > > >> 300 > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s > > > > >> data =KN IsmJKqH2jG993HWWcVyKGZluqQVmuBHqxi7RC1YeM%3d>, the > > > > >> first ground-up open source alliance chartered to promote open > > > > >> source governance and technologies in China and Asia with over > > > > >> 50 community and enterprise members now) wish to bridge the > > > > >> gaps between the leading international OSS communities, like > > > > >> ASF, and communities and enterprises in China. The last Apache > > > > >> roadshow was on 2009 in Shanghai. We, KAIYUANSHE, thought it'd > > > > >> be good to reboot the ASF engagement through another roadshow > > > > >> in China. > > > > >> > > > > >> The Apache Roadshow 2015 - China with KAIYUANSHE was organized > > > > >> by KAIYUANSHE and successfully held on Oct. 24-25 in Beijing > > > > >> with ASF's community sponsorship and keynoters support, i.e. > > > > >> Brett Porter, David Nalley, Niclas Hedhman, J. Aaron Farr and Jason > > > > >> Dai. > > > > >> Please see more roadshow details here. > > > > >> > > > > >> - ASF "Foundation" blog > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2 > > > > >> fs.a > > > > >> pac > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d > > > > >> 98c2 > > > > >> 300 > > > > >> 84457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s > > > > >> data > > > > >> =m1 ntBhqGqxvgjfBnautwrBf1oKnIc6dyi6j31fjP6xo%3d< > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2 > > > > >> fs.a > > > > >> pac > > > > >> he.org%2fq2L&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407 > > > > >> aaa4 > > > > >> b8a > > > > >> 314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&s > > > > >> data =BX 9JYQC1f13QXPZwKSGBm6%2bwC2D%2fn1%2bcOoq3rIQTwsw%3d > > > > >> - @TheASF Twitter feed > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f% > > > > >> 2ftw > > > > >> itt > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte > > > > >> dl%4 > > > > >> 006 > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c230084457b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f98 > > > > >> 8bf8 > > > > >> 6f1 > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=qdet9%2bbJFQOho188838TnlA09W09ik > > > > >> WU37 > > > > >> CWt > > > > >> EOXwqg%3d< > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f% > > > > >> 2ftw > > > > >> itt > > > > >> er.com%2fTheASF%2fstatus%2f664920266397646848&data=01%7c01%7cte > > > > >> dl%4 > > > > >> 006 > > > > >> 4d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b8a314f85dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f98 > > > > >> 8bf8 > > > > >> 6f1 > > > > >> 41af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=l6exPHzOHmI56%2bicv2MCtaEPkCHpdC > > > > >> 7CWh > > > > >> dX0 > > > > >> GFRwPs%3d > > > > >> - annou...@apache.org<mailto:annou...@apache.org> (and > > > > >> archives) > > > > >> - ASF dedicated media/analyst list > > > > >> - > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2 > > > > >> fapa > > > > >> che > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7cf7d98c23 > > > > >> 0084 > > > > >> 457 > > > > >> b6ef408d2f241b3ef%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > > > >> eH1M 4gu 2moPKLElh97xM7CgxgSEbM9O3JZDqk1AxfEU%3d< > > > > >> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2 > > > > >> fapa > > > > >> che > > > > >> .org%2f&data=01%7c01%7ctedl%40064d.mgd.microsoft.com%7c407aaa4b > > > > >> 8a31 > > > > >> 4f8 > > > > >> 5dc0a08d2ebd3057d%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata= > > > > >> F1Dd EAF N4EWnlKMlYZkPfa2izrtPwulToBHZcpf%2b0O4%3d> > > > > >> home page > > > > >> > > > > >> After the roadshow, we have received tremendous requests to > > > > >> form a China community to keep engaging with 5000+ audience who > > > > >> attended this roadshow and tens of thousands people who did not > > > > >> have time or were unaware of the events. So far, there already > > > > >> are many volunteers, including Apache members, PMC members, > > > > >> committers, contributors, developers and users, who are willing > > > > >> to join the China community steering committee and working > > > > >> groups to help grow the talents, projects and community in > > > > >> China and bridge between ASF and the fans in China following the > > > > >> Apache way. > > > > >> Any feedback or advice on how to form a community of Apache > > > > >> fans in China or how to form a new China-specific project at > > > > >> the ComDev would be greatly appreciated. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> Ted Liu > > > > >> Co-organizer of the Apache Roadshow 2015 - China Co-founding > > > > >> member of KAIYUANSHE > >
