On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 5:57 AM, Christian Grobmeier <grobme...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Another option is to try to work with Ceki to address some of the >>> concerns of the commons community with regards to using slf4j. >>> >>> * There is a hassle with too many jars for dependencies with slf4j. >>> * Every time Ceki goes on vacation everything stops. >>> * Some have a preference for Apache driven projects. >>> * Figuring out the dependencies that are needed can be difficult. >> >> Another option would be to try to convince Ceki to move his project to >> the ASF? He is an ASF member, right? What were his concerns about >> the ASF that made him start his project elsewhere? > > Ceki is an ASF member and even a Logging PMC. > You can read most about his concerns on his blog, for example: > http://ceki.blogspot.com/2010/05/forces-and-vulnerabilites-of-apache.html > http://ceki.blogspot.com/2010/05/committocracy-as-alternative-for.html > > He seems to be very opposed to the ASF model; there was much bad > feelings in the "log4j case" before I started with logging and > therefore I doubt that Ceki is willing to go back to the ASF. At least > his blogposts reflect that he is not satisfied with the "Apache Way" > itself instead of personal trouble, which we might be able to solve. > Ceki is reading this list, so maybe he wants to elaborate a bit more. > > The logback project is not satisfying me as a developer. I am at the > ASF because I like the way it is. I like the software. And of course I > like the way the work is done here and finally I like the license. > > logback/slf4j is going another way. It does not have the license, and > holidays seem to be very important to the project. > > We, the ASF, have really good software in our repositories. We have > very competent people around. Why do we discuss to move to > slf4j/logback - now? The last time we discussed this there was less > activity on logging. Now there is activity on the logging project at > apache. There is Ralph and some other people doing lots of work for > log4j2. > We have learned there are some people who want commons-logging. We > have learned in Tomcat are some people who created classloader > workarounds and know about the case and could help with it. > > It feels wrong to me to move away to slf4j/logback with Commons at > this point of time. We would kill the new growing dynamics of logging. > Instead we should use the new interest and try to work together on the > new log4j/commons-logging. Over at logging we welcome new fresh blood. > > After all, even log4j 1.2.x is not bad software. I use it daily; i > have not missed the features of logback (parametrized messages, > Markers etc.) so far. I put log4j in my class path, copy over one of > my fave configuration, ready. No need to waste any more time to this. > log4j is still good and at the moment I don't see a reason to move on. > > In the commons-logging case, if the commons-* projects stop using > commons-logging, then commons-logging feels pretty dead. > > So my preference is: > > - Help Ralph to make log4j 2.0 become truth > - Update commons-logging, make it work with log4j 2.0 > - Try to make log4j 2.0 become compatible with slf4j
+1 > > If one of you is interested in helping with log4j, please subscribe to > log4j-...@logging.apache.org Done. Nice message Christian. Gary > > Cheers > Christian > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org > > -- Thank you, Gary http://garygregory.wordpress.com/ http://garygregory.com/ http://people.apache.org/~ggregory/ http://twitter.com/GaryGregory --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@commons.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@commons.apache.org
