On 06/22/2018 08:04 AM, Rohit Yadav wrote:
> Good idea, but a lot of things supported in advanced zone with KVM may not be
> supported in case of VMware, XenServer etc. The larger refactoring will need
> to account for how in various places checks exists how behaviors are enforced
> when the zone is basic or not, and what kind of impact will it have on
> non-KVM users using basic zone (if any) along with having an upgrade path for
> such users.
>
I have no experience with VMWare nor XenServer, but doesn't Advanced
Networking with a Shared VLAN work the same on those?
>
> If the overall functionality is retained and a seamless upgrade path can be
> created a new major release 5.0 is not be necessary (that should be a
> different thread with inputs from various stakeholders on various topics).
>
A upgrade will be very difficult to convert a Basic Network to Advanced
as bridges on the HV need to be changed and this can vary per deployment.
>
> Wrt support of the next Java version, we'll need to consider the distro
> provided Java version for a long time Java8 will be supported [1] but newer
> versions Java 9/10 onwards are short-term non-LTS releases, debian
> testing/next don't even have openjdk-9/10 packages yet.
>
>
> [1] http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/eol-135779.html
>
>
> - Rohit
>
> <https://cloudstack.apache.org>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Wido den Hollander <w...@widodh.nl>
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 8:26:40 PM
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Blocking the creation of new Basic Networking zones
>
> For now I've created a Pull Request so we can have a discussion about it
> there: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/2720
>
> Wido
>
> On 06/21/2018 02:34 PM, Gabriel Beims Bräscher wrote:
>> +1
>>
>> We have an empty page regarding 5.0 [1] in the Design documents section
>> [2]. It might be a good spot to sort out CloudStack 5.0 plans.
>>
>> [1]
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/5.0+Design+Documents
>> [2] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Design
>>
>> 2018-06-21 5:58 GMT-03:00 Daan Hoogland <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> well, that one is a good one to update, but there was a dedicated 5.0 page
>>> at some time. I think we can just use this from here on in and merge
>>> anything else in it when we find it ;)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 8:49 AM, Rafael Weingärtner <
>>> rafaelweingart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This one [1]?
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Roadmap
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 10:46 AM, Daan Hoogland <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wido, there used to be a page on cwiki with plans for 5.0, I can not
>>> find
>>>>> it anymore but this should be added to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 6:42 PM, ilya musayev <
>>>>> ilya.mailing.li...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the simplicity of Basic Zone was - you can get away with 1
>>> VLAN
>>>>>> for everything (great for POC setup) where as Advanced Shared with
>>> VLAN
>>>>>> isolation requires several VLANs to get going.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would we cover this use case?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 11:34 AM Tutkowski, Mike <
>>>>>> mike.tutkow...@netapp.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also, yes, I agree with the list you provided, Wido. We might have
>>> to
>>>>>>> break “other fancy stuff” into more detail, though. ;)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/20/18, 12:32 PM, "Tutkowski, Mike" <mike.tutkow...@netapp.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, Wido :) I missed that part.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/20/18, 5:03 AM, "Wido den Hollander" <w...@widodh.nl>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/20/2018 12:31 AM, Tutkowski, Mike wrote:
>>>>>>> > If this initiative goes through, perhaps that’s a good
>>> time
>>>> to
>>>>>>> bump CloudStack’s release number to 5.0.0?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what I said in my e-mail :-) But yes, I agree with
>>> you,
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> might be a good time to bump it to 5.0
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> With that we would:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Drop creation of new Basic Networking Zones
>>>>>>> - Support IPv6 in shared IPv6 networks
>>>>>>> - Java 9?
>>>>>>> - Drop support for Ubuntu 12.04
>>>>>>> - Other fancy stuff?
>>>>>>> - Support ConfigDrive in all scenarios properly
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would that sound?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wido
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> On Jun 19, 2018, at 3:17 PM, Wido den Hollander <
>>>>>>> w...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> On 06/19/2018 11:07 PM, Daan Hoogland wrote:
>>>>>>> >>> I like this initiative, and here comes the big but even
>>>>>>> though I myself
>>>>>>> >>> might think it is not valid; Basic zones are there to
>>>> give a
>>>>>>> simple start
>>>>>>> >>> for new users. If we can give a one-knob start/one page
>>>>>>> wizard for creating
>>>>>>> >>> a shared network in advanced zone with security groups
>>> and
>>>>>>> userdata, great.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> That would be a UI thing, but it would be a matter of
>>> using
>>>>>>> VLAN
>>>>>>> >> isolation and giving in VLAN 0 or 'untagged', because
>>>> that's
>>>>>>> basically
>>>>>>> >> what Basic Networking does.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> It plugs the VM on top of usually cloudbr0 (KVM).
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> If you use vlan://untagged for the broadcast_uri in
>>>> Advanced
>>>>>>> Networking
>>>>>>> >> you get exactly the same result.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> And I really fancy this idea. let's make ACS more simple
>>>> by
>>>>>>> throwing at as
>>>>>>> >>> much code as we can in a gradual and controlled way :+1:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I would love to. But I'm a real novice when it comes to
>>> the
>>>>> UI
>>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>> >> So that would be something I wouldn't be good at doing.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Blocking Basic Networking creation is a few if-statements
>>>> at
>>>>>>> the right
>>>>>>> >> location and you're done.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Wido
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:57 PM, Wido den Hollander <
>>>>>>> w...@widodh.nl> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> We (PCextreme) are a big-time user of Basic Networking
>>>> and
>>>>>>> recently
>>>>>>> >>>> started to look into Advanced Networking with VLAN
>>>>> isolation
>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>> >>>> shared network.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> This provides (from what we can see) all the features
>>>> Basic
>>>>>>> Networking
>>>>>>> >>>> provides, like the VR just doing DHCP and UserData
>>> while
>>>>> the
>>>>>>> Hypervisor
>>>>>>> >>>> does the Security Grouping.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> That made me wonder why we still have Basic Networking.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Dropping all the code would be a big problem for users
>>> as
>>>>>>> you can't
>>>>>>> >>>> simply migrate from Basic to Advanced. In theory we
>>> found
>>>>>>> out that it's
>>>>>>> >>>> possible by changing the database, but I wouldn't
>>>> guarantee
>>>>>>> it works in
>>>>>>> >>>> every use-case. So doing this automatically during a
>>>>> upgrade
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> >>>> difficult.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> To prevent us from having to maintain the Basic
>>>> Networking
>>>>>>> code for ever
>>>>>>> >>>> I would like to propose and discuss the matter of
>>>>> preventing
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >>>> creation of new Basic Networking zones.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> In the future this can get us rid of a lot of if-else
>>>>>>> statements in the
>>>>>>> >>>> code and it would make testing also easier as we have
>>> few
>>>>>>> things to test.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Most of the development also seems to go in the
>>> Advanced
>>>>>>> Networking
>>>>>>> >>>> direction.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> We are currently also working on IPv6 in Advanced
>>> Shared
>>>>>>> Networks and
>>>>>>> >>>> that's progressing very good as well.
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Would this be something to call the 5.0 release where
>>> we
>>>>>>> simplify the
>>>>>>> >>>> networking and in the UI/API get rid of Basic
>>> Networking
>>>>>>> while keeping
>>>>>>> >>>> it alive for existing users?
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>> Wido
>>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Daan
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Rafael Weingärtner
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Daan
>>>
>>
>
> rohit.ya...@shapeblue.com
> www.shapeblue.com
> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London WC2N 4HSUK
> @shapeblue
>
>
>
>
