> Op 24 augustus 2016 om 7:47 schreef Makrand <makrandsa...@gmail.com>: > > > Guys, > > I am not sure on overall developer talk, but let me understand something > here. > > Bit about setup:- > So, at my new work place, we already have 5 zones (each zone with its own > management server) with management node running on Ubuntu 12.04. ACS 4.4.2 > and XENserver 6.2. It was setup by someone who isn't working here anymore. > There are some internal issues (Technical and Non-technical) with whole > setup and hence we don't have any immediate plans of upgrading 12.04 to > forward one or even cloudstack for that matter. > > So If I get it correctly and you guys drop support for 12.04, say in 4.10, > then I can only upgrade to 4.9.x any time in future. Is that it? > > Or If I decide to to upgrade to 4.10, then I should get my Ubuntu to 14.04 > or higher and then cloud stack? >
Yes, indeed. Those systems would need to go to 14.04 but preferably 16.04 by then. Wido > > > -- > Best, > Makrand > > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 10:08 AM, John Burwell <john.burw...@shapeblue.com> > wrote: > > > Wido, > > > > My only issue is dropping for any distro between patch releases. If > > someone is running 4.9.0.0 on Ubuntu 12.04, and they need to update to > > 4.9.1.0+ (e.g. to get a CVE fix), they will be stranded. This failure > > seems to fail the Law of Least Surprise. While I recognize that it is > > unlikely that we have people running 4.9 on 12.04, it is impossible to be > > certain. Therefore, I vote to play it safe, and continue to support it in > > 4.9 release branch. > > > > For master (i.e. 4.10.0.0), Wido makes a strong case for dropping Ubuntu > > 12.04. If any users are using Ubuntu 12.04 when 4.10.0 is released, they > > would have a supported release well past the April 2017 EOL since 4.9 is an > > LTS release. Therefore, removing Ubuntu 12.04 support from 4.10.0.0 seems > > like a Good Thing (tm) in terms of simplifying the code and testing matrix. > > > > Can everyone accept that the 4.9 release branch will be the last to > > support Ubuntu 12.04? If so, we can repoint the PR and merge it. > > > > In terms of Ubuntu 16.04 support, ideally we would support it in > > 4.9.1.0+. However, if I understand Wido correctly, supporting Ubuntu 12.04 > > and 16.04 in the same branch is very difficult or impossible. Am I correct > > in my understanding? > > > > Thanks, > > -John > > > > > > > john.burw...@shapeblue.com > > www.shapeblue.com > > 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London VA WC2N 4HSUK > > @shapeblue > > > > > > > > On Aug 23, 2016, at 6:14 AM, Wido den Hollander <w...@widodh.nl> wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> Op 23 augustus 2016 om 11:38 schreef Rohit Yadav < > > rohit.ya...@shapeblue.com>: > > >> > > >> > > >> Historically, CloudStack's debian/deb packages/repositories have never > > been supported by the initial authors. For example, initial ACS version and > > all CCP releases never shipped deb packages, nor in our (old and recent) > > documentation we promote installation/running CloudStack on Debian/Ubuntu. > > Afaik, it was Wido who introduced it because he wanted to run CloudStack on > > Ubuntu/Debian-based distro. Also, the packages are something that the > > project never shipped or endorsed or supported, so it's up to the > > maintainers of various repositories how they are building and hosting > > CloudStack packages. Even if we remove the packaging support in our > > branch/repository, anyone can build CloudStack for any distro, several > > people/projects have packaging related buildsystem/code separated from the > > project codebase. Most tutorials that I found are based around Ubuntu 14.04 > > or CentOS, given that 12.04 is 4+ years old, we might not even have anyone > > using CloudStack on it. > > >> > > > > > > I highly doubt somebody still runs Ubuntu 12.04 with a recent version of > > CloudStack. > > > > > > 4+ years in Qemu/libvirt time is a very long time. > > > > > >> > > >> That said -- I think 4.9 should at least not drop the support yet, just > > to let any Ubuntu 12.04 user who may be using it in the wild. If we look at > > the PR, the way we're dropping the support is by simply bumping up few > > package dependency versions. The issue of supporting or dropping support > > for Ubuntu 12.04 lies in those version changes only. > > >> > > >> > > >> The more important thing right now is to support at least Ubuntu 16.04 > > hosts as KVM guests and usage-server hosts, which is much needed in both > > 4.9 and master branch for the upcoming 4.9.1.0 and 4.10.0.0 releases. > > >> > > >> > > >> Wido -- would it be acceptable to avoid bumping up the min. package > > dependency version, i.e we don't change the pkg dependencies for > > cloudstack-agent and keep the version number as it is for lsb-base, > > qemu-kvm, libvirt-bin for 4.9 branch. While on 4.10, we can discuss if we > > want to drop the support now or plan this later. > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Well, yes. But I don't know *what* might break on 12.04. I wrote the PR > > in May and there must have been a reason for that. > > > > > > Feel free to modify the PR and not bump those versions. Packages might > > work or not, not completely sure. > > > > > > Wido > > > > > >> Regards. > > >> > > >> ________________________________ > > >> From: Wido den Hollander <w...@widodh.nl> > > >> Sent: 23 August 2016 11:38:43 > > >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org; John Burwell; > > us...@cloudstack.apache.org > > >> Subject: Re: Eliminating Support for Ubuntu 12.04 > > >> > > >> > > >>> Op 23 augustus 2016 om 1:02 schreef John Burwell < > > john.burw...@shapeblue.com>: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> All, > > >>> > > >>> PR 1647 [1] proposes dropping support for Ubuntu 12.04 from 4.9.2.0+. > > The primary motivation for its removal is that the age of its libvirt and > > qemu versions greatly complicate maintenance of the KVM integration. > > However, Ubuntu 12.04 will be supported until April 2017 [2]. What would be > > the impact to our user community of removing support for Ubuntu 12.04 > > before its EOL in April 2017? If we don’t drop support for it in 4.x, > > would it be acceptable to drop support for it in 5.0.0 which is currently > > scheduled for release at the end of 2016 [3]? > > >>> > > >> > > >> The PR was supposed to go into 4.9 already, it just took way to long to > > get merged. So that's why it would now go into 4.9.2 > > >> > > >>> If we do chose to drop support for Ubuntu 12.04 in 4.x, I propose that > > we remove it in 4.10.0.0 rather than 4.9.2.0. First, it is reasonable for > > users to expect that upgrading between patch releases (i.e. 4.9.x.x -> > > 4.9.x+1.x) would not require system changes. Dropping a distribution would > > violate such an expectation. Second, 4.9 is an LTS branch. Therefore, > > maintaining 12.04 support in 4.9 would provide LTS users with support for > > Ubuntu 12.04 until May 2018 — well after its EOL. Does this approach seem > > reasonable if we elect drop Ubuntu 12.04 in 4.x? > > >> > > >> Again, this PR had to be merged earlier, not later. It's just very > > difficult packaging wise to keep supporting 12.04 and 16.04 at the same > > time. > > >> > > >> The Qemu and libvirt versions in 12.04 are truly ancient. I doubt > > anybody is running stock 12.04 with CloudStack 4.8 right now for example. > > >> > > >> The Ubuntu 12.04 debate has been popping up multiple times in the last > > year. > > >> > > >> This PR has been open way to long, that's imho the main problem here. > > >> > > >> I'm in favor of dropping 12.04, should have been done in 4.9 already > > and not wait any longer. > > >> > > >> Wido > > >> > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> -John > > >>> > > >>> [1]: https://github.com/apache/cloudstack/pull/1647 > > >>> [2]: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases > > >>> [3]: https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/ > > %5BPROPOSAL%5D+2016-2017+Release+Cycle+and+Calendar<htt > > ps://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/ > > [PROPOSAL]+2016-2017+Release+Cycle+and+Calendar> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> john.burw...@shapeblue.com > > >>> www.shapeblue.com<http://www.shapeblue.com> > > >>> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London VA WC2N 4HSUK > > >>> @shapeblue > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> rohit.ya...@shapeblue.com > > >> www.shapeblue.com > > >> 53 Chandos Place, Covent Garden, London WC2N 4HSUK > > >> @shapeblue > > > >
