Hi Will, Cloudstack is more than just the code and its mirroring. It’s the community and the ability for those to participate. The issues that occur at cloudstack/cloudstack will not be mirrored to the ASF; the convo won’t be mirrored, and least of all the people and their belief in the branding of cloudstack/cloudstack as the “canonical” repo for apache/cloudstack is what I’m talking about. If someone told me, oh you can do X, Y, Z GitHub stuff at cloudstack/cloustack, and that’s where all the automated testing, liveliness is, all the people working on it, that’s basically by definition a fork, and a moving/shifting of the community.
There isn’t really any other way to describe it. As for your question about mirroring apache/cloudstack to cloudstack/cloudstack I don’t believe we support that currently. Cheers, Chris -----Original Message----- From: <williamstev...@gmail.com> on behalf of Will Stevens <wstev...@cloudops.com> Reply-To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 9:31 AM To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack pull request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...) >I am not sure I understand how people wanting to participate with Apache >Cloudstack would ever be at a disadvantage, it would still all be the same >code base. The changes in cloudstack/cloudstack would get pushed to the >ASF repo and would then get mirrored to the apache/cloudstack repo, so >they >would all be in sync. > >Out of curiosity, is it possible to have ASF mirror to apache/cloudstack >(as it currently does) and then have apache/cloudstack mirror to >cloudstack/cloudstack? This way to can guarantee that the ASF repo is the >canonical repo, while also being able to take advantage of an improved dev >workflow and the integration of distributed CI environments. > > > >*Will STEVENS* >Lead Developer > >*CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts >420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 >w cloudops.com *|* tw @CloudOps_ > >On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < >chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> >> Thank you. What you describe effectively below is going to >> implicitly switch the “canonical” repo in my opinion of the >> >> repository to cloudstack/cloudstack. Merges that happen there, >> conversation that happens there on PRs and issues, labels, etc., >> will be captured there and likely at increased pace and velocity, >> leaving the folks wanting to participate in the Apache Cloudstack >> project who aren’t part of cloudstack/cloudstack at a disadvantage. >> >> Thanks for speaking up and looking forward to more discussion. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Tutkowski, Mike" <mike.tutkow...@netapp.com> >> Reply-To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> >> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 9:03 AM >> To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> >> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack >>pull >> request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...) >> >> >As far as I understand, cloudstack/cloudstack is only being proposed to >> >help with developer workflow and CI. >> > >> >To my understanding, all code that goes in there will end up back in >>the >> >canonical ASF CloudStack repo (and, as such, be mirrored to >> >apache/cloudstack). >> > >> >This is simply a workaround to help solve developer workflow and CI >> >issues that we couldn't due to lack of privileges on the current repo. >> > >> >I do not believe anyone on the PMC is talking about forking CloudStack >> >and going off in a different direction. >> >________________________________________ >> >From: Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> >> >Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2016 9:52 AM >> >To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> >Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] cloudstack >> >pull request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...) >> > >> >Hi Sebastien, >> > >> > >> >[..] >> >>> >> >>> Hi Sebastien, >> >>> >> >>> Thanks for your reply and yes, I am a member of the ASF board. >> >>> >> >>> The thing is, there was already some discussion of this at the >> >>> ASF board meeting that happened yesterday. I can tell you that >> >>> there were more than a few board members that were a bit concerned >> >>> at the prospect of Apache Cloudstack forking and starting a new >> >>> GitHub organization, so I’m here now to discuss. >> >> >> >>We are not forking. In the sense that the canonical repo is at the ASF >> >>and mirrored on apache/cloudstack. >> > >> >OK, good though based on the rest of your replies, I actually see >> >the opposite being said. Also “we” is the relative word here, which >> >I’ll get back to later in this message. >> > >> >> >> >>The cloudstack org on github existed and was empty, one of us >>contacted >> >>github and we got the “control” of it. >> >> >> >>> >> >>> I’m sorry that you are unhappy with the lack of access to GitHub >> >>> facilities, however I’m confused, the ASF does provide mirroring, >> >>> active GitHub issue, >> >> >> >>As far as I know we cannot use github issues. >> >>[..snip..] >> >>To close PRs you need to make a commit. >> >[..snip..] >> >>Be able to use labels >> >>Be able to setup our own triggers/hooks >> > >> >David Nalley can speak to this as I’m not sure if you can or >> >cannot or if infra@ is providing this. Thanks for stating this. >> > >> >> >> >> >> >>> PMC desires and if so can you state that? I remember seeing a >>request >> >>> that you wanted the ability to close pull requests and to be part of >> >>> the experiment going on with the Whimsy PMC - >> >> >> >>Indeed, and I (we) never heard back. >> > >> >Right - that’s probably b/c it wasn’t discussed with the board >> >until our last meeting which just happened yesterday. It’s >> >my reading of the tea leaves that the experiment, while considered >> >going in the right direction with Whimsy, is not open to other >> >PMCs. It’s possible that we may as a board decide that further >> >response is needed, but until that happens or if that doesn’t happen >> >you can take my response until then. >> > >> >>[..snip..] >> > >> >> >> >>> The other thing is - is the new Cloudstack GitHub organization the >> >>> result of a subset of the PMC going off and doing this - >> >> >> >>I am not sure why you say subset. Let’s try to avoid polemics. >> > >> >I’m not trying to attack. >> > >> >I asked a simple question - how many/who in the Apache CloudStack PMC >> >is intent on using this new Cloudstack GitHub organization? Not an >> >attack, a question that I still don’t have an answer to. >> > >> >I also wanted to gauge whether there are others on the PMC that will >> >speak up. I’ll continue waiting to hear more about that. >> > >> >>[..snip..] >> >>Again, this is not about leaving the ASF. This is about accessing >> >>productive tools and making use of them to their fullest. >> >> >> >>> Finally, as for the Apache Cloudstack PMC - for the PMC the policy >>of >> >>> the ASF is that the canonical repository at the moment is on ASF >> >>>hardware. >> >> >> >>And we would like the ASF to reconsider this. >> > >> >Put bluntly, the decision is no, and it is in the hands of the ASF >>Infra@ >> >and based on >> >discussions I’ve seen on public lists there and on board@ and part of >>the >> >board >> >meeting yesterday, Infra@ is not opening up the Whimsy experiment to >> other >> >PMCs >> >as of yet. They aren’t ready to declare an SLA; they aren’t ready for >> >potential >> >other PMCs to ask to use it too and for others to start thinking that >> >capability >> >is anything near operational. David Nalley can fill in more. >> > >> >> >> >>> There are not any approved policies for external forks being the >> >>>canonical >> >>> repo, especially those in another GitHub organization not managed by >> >>>the >> >>> ASF. There is an experiment in the Apache Whimsy PMC to experiment >>with >> >>> GitHub as the canonical repo for an apache/* org project. That is >>still >> >>>an >> >>> experiment and not widely offered by ASF infra to all PMCs. >> >>> >> >> >> >>Are other projects than Whimsy being allowed to experiment ? >> > >> >Not at this time. >> > >> >>[..snip..] >> >>> >> >> >> >>And just to clarify, you are acting here as “the board” ? Meaning the >> >>board asked you to get on dev@ and talk with our community after >>seeing >> >>our report ? >> >>I am asking because the PMC has not received an official response from >> >>the board based on our report (and annexed interim report). >> > >> >I am one of 9 Directors, but I believe if you’d like to test the waters >> >that >> >I have support of other board members in asking these questions based >>on >> >the >> >meetings yesterday. And as one of the Directors of the board and a >> >long-time >> >ASF’er, I’m here also as a concerned member since some actions that I >>have >> >seen >> >by Cloudstack related to this GitHub external organization imply to me >> >that there >> >is something more than meets the eye here. >> > >> >Let’s keep discussing, hopefully with more participation from the >> >community besides >> >the two of us. >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Chris >> > >> >> >> >>> Thanks, >> >>> Chris >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Sebastien Goasguen <run...@gmail.com> >> >>> Reply-To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> >> >>> Date: Thursday, March 17, 2016 at 3:15 AM >> >>> To: "dev@cloudstack.apache.org" <dev@cloudstack.apache.org> >> >>> Subject: Re: External fork of Cloudstack (was Re: [GitHub] >>cloudstack >> >>>pull >> >>> request: Is the project attempting a fork on Githu...) >> >>> >> >>>> Hi Chris, >> >>>> >> >>>> We have never met but i recognize your name from members only ASF >> >>>>threads. >> >>>> >> >>>> For the benefit of others on this list it is useful to mention that >> >>>>you >> >>>> are a member of the ASF board. >> >>>> >> >>>> The PMC has filed its quarterly report for march, as well as an >> >>>>interim >> >>>> report about a month ago. The interim report was acknowledged by >>Sam >> >>>>Ruby >> >>>> couple days ago only. >> >>>> >> >>>> I am assuming that the board will discuss it at its monthly meeting >> >>>>and >> >>>> that we will hear from the board then. >> >>>> >> >>>> Other than that the discussions are active on dev@ , but roughly we >> >>>>feel >> >>>> that we are being hurt by lack of access to github facilities. >> >>>> >> >>>> Best, >> >>>> >> >>>> -Sebastien >> >>>> >> >>>>> On 17 Mar 2016, at 00:04, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Sorry about my crude way of filing a PR for this, but I heard >> >>>>> information about the Apache Cloudstack PMC actively >> >>>>> discussing managing the project with GitHub as the primary source >> >>>>> in a different organization than the github.com/apache/ org. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Can someone clarify this for me? Clearly wearing my board hat, >> >>>>> this is not something we allow for any of our ASF projects. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cheers, >> >>>>> Chris “board hat on” Mattmann >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> > >> > >> >>
