The recording is at the bottom of https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CLOUDSTACK/Quality+and+Process+Improvement+Initiative.
-- Stephen Turner -----Original Message----- From: Nux! [mailto:n...@li.nux.ro] Sent: 16 December 2014 13:53 To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org Cc: Steve Wilson Subject: Re: CloudStack Quality Process Thanks, I'll also want to watch the recording. -- Sent from the Delta quadrant using Borg technology! Nux! www.nux.ro ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Animesh Chaturvedi" <animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org > Cc: "Steve Wilson" <steve.wil...@citrix.com> > Sent: Wednesday, 10 December, 2014 04:55:31 > Subject: RE: CloudStack Quality Process > Yes I am planning to record the GTM > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Will Stevens [mailto:williamstev...@gmail.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 6:59 PM >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> Cc: Steve Wilson >> Subject: RE: CloudStack Quality Process >> >> Is it possible to record the meeting? Maybe we can post it so others >> can view it if they are not able to attend (or only become interested >> after the first couple meetings and wants to catch up)? >> >> Will >> On Dec 9, 2014 9:52 PM, "Animesh Chaturvedi" >> <animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> >> wrote: >> >> > I can setup a GTM since it is free for Citrix. >> > >> > Here are the details. >> > >> > 1. Please join my meeting. >> > https://www1.gotomeeting.com/join/285394368 >> > >> > 2. Use your microphone and speakers (VoIP) - a headset is recommended. >> > Or, call in using your telephone. >> > >> > United States: +1 (213) 493-0008 >> > Argentina (toll-free): 0 800 444 2385 Australia (toll-free): 1 800 >> > 191 358 >> > Australia: +61 2 9091 7603 >> > Austria (toll-free): 0 800 080061 >> > Austria: +43 (0) 7 2088 0716 >> > Bahrain (toll-free): 800 81 305 >> > Belarus (toll-free): 8 820 0011 0331 Belgium (toll-free): 0 800 >> > 81388 >> > Belgium: +32 (0) 28 08 4372 >> > Brazil (toll-free): 0 800 047 4909 >> > Bulgaria (toll-free): 00800 120 4413 Canada (toll-free): 1 877 777 >> > 3281 >> > Canada: +1 (647) 497-9380 >> > Chile (toll-free): 800 395 146 >> > China (toll-free): 4008 866154 >> > Colombia (toll-free): 01 800 012 9057 Czech Republic (toll-free): >> > 800 500453 Denmark (toll-free): 8025 0919 >> > Denmark: +45 (0) 69 91 84 58 >> > Finland (toll-free): 0 800 94473 >> > Finland: +358 (0) 931 58 1773 >> > France (toll-free): 0 805 541 052 >> > France: +33 (0) 170 950 590 >> > Germany (toll-free): 0 800 184 4230 >> > Germany: +49 (0) 692 5736 7300 >> > Greece (toll-free): 00 800 4414 4282 Hong Kong (toll-free): >> > 30774812 Hungary (toll-free): (06) 80 986 259 Iceland (toll-free): >> > 800 9993 India (toll-free): 000 800 100 8227 Indonesia (toll-free): >> > 001 803 020 2563 Ireland (toll-free): 1 800 818 >> > 263 >> > Ireland: +353 (0) 15 133 006 >> > Israel (toll-free): 1 809 388 020 >> > Italy (toll-free): 800 792289 >> > Italy: +39 0 699 26 68 65 >> > Japan (toll-free): 0 120 242 200 >> > Korea, Republic of (toll-free): 0806180880 Luxembourg (toll-free): >> > 800 >> > 81016 Malaysia (toll-free): 1 800 81 6860 Mexico (toll-free): 01 >> > 800 >> > 123 8367 Netherlands (toll-free): 0 800 020 0178 >> > Netherlands: +31 (0) 208 080 759 >> > New Zealand (toll-free): 0 800 47 0051 New Zealand: +64 (0) 9 974 >> > 9579 Norway (toll-free): 800 69 055 >> > Norway: +47 21 04 30 59 >> > Panama (toll-free): 001 800 507 2789 Peru (toll-free): 0 800 55253 >> > Philippines (toll-free): 1 800 1110 1565 Poland (toll-free): 00 800 >> > 3211434 Portugal (toll-free): 800 180 139 Romania (toll-free): 0 >> > 800 >> > 410 025 Russian Federation (toll-free): 8 800 100 6914 Saudi Arabia >> > (toll-free): 800 844 3636 Singapore (toll-free): 800 101 3000 South >> > Africa (toll-free): 0 800 555 451 Spain (toll-free): 800 900 593 >> > Spain: +34 931 76 1534 >> > Sweden (toll-free): 020 794 545 >> > Sweden: +46 (0) 852 500 691 >> > Switzerland (toll-free): 0 800 000 452 >> > Switzerland: +41 (0) 435 0026 89 >> > Taiwan (toll-free): 0 800 666 846 >> > Thailand (toll-free): 001 800 852 2442 Turkey (toll-free): 00 800 >> > 4488 >> > 29001 Ukraine (toll-free): 0 800 50 4691 United Arab Emirates >> > (toll-free): 800 044 40444 United Kingdom (toll-free): 0 808 168 >> > 0209 United Kingdom: +44 (0) 20 7151 1817 United States >> > (toll-free): 1 877 >> > 309 2070 Uruguay (toll-free): 000 405 4459 Viet Nam (toll-free): >> > 120 >> > 32 148 >> > >> > Access Code: 285-394-368 >> > Audio PIN: Shown after joining the meeting >> > >> > Meeting ID: 285-394-368 >> > >> > GoToMeeting® >> > Online Meetings Made Easy® >> > >> > Not at your computer? Click the link to join this meeting from your >> > iPhone®, iPad® or Android® device via the GoToMeeting app. >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Pierre-Luc Dion [mailto:pd...@cloudops.com] >> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2014 11:16 AM >> > > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > > Cc: Steve Wilson >> > > Subject: Re: CloudStack Quality Process >> > > >> > > Based on Doodle. Meeting is schedule for Dec 10th, 17h00 UTC. >> > freenode: >> > > #cloudstack-meeting unless someone have a GTM. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Daan Hoogland >> > > <daan.hoogl...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> > > > When do we call the result of the doodle? wait for wednesday? >> > > > >> > > > On Sat, Dec 6, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Chip Childers >> > > > <chipchild...@apache.org> >> > > > wrote: >> > > > > Thanks for listening to my concerns folks... and I'll be >> > > > > rooting for >> > > > those >> > > > > of you that are "doing" to come up with some better practices >> > > > > for the community to adopt! >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Dec 5, 2014 at 5:07 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < >> > > > > animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Agreed >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > > > >> > From: williamstev...@gmail.com >> > > > >> > [mailto:williamstev...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Will >> > > > >> > Stevens >> > > > >> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 2:41 PM >> > > > >> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org >> > > > >> > Cc: Steve Wilson >> > > > >> > Subject: Re: CloudStack Quality Process >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > I am speaking as a committer who has limited insight into >> > > > >> > the >> > > > 'correct' >> > > > >> way to do >> > > > >> > this via Apache (so be gentle). :) >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > I like the idea of a wiki page to help get everyone on the >> > > > >> > same page >> > > > and >> > > > >> to track >> > > > >> > the consensus as we move forward... >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > I also agree that it is hard to come to a consensus on the >> > > > >> > list >> > > > because >> > > > >> it is really >> > > > >> > hard to have a constructive conversation on here in a >> > > > >> > timely manner >> > > > >> where the >> > > > >> > different voices can be heard. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > I think it would be interesting to schedule >> > > > >> > sessions/meetings on the >> > > > >> list so any >> > > > >> > interested party can join. These sessions/meetings would >> > > > >> > happen in a >> > > > >> format >> > > > >> > like IRC where the transcript of the session can be later >> > > > >> > posted to >> > > > the >> > > > >> list as well >> > > > >> > as a summary of the transcript so it can be reviewed by >> > > > >> > any member who >> > > > >> could >> > > > >> > not make the meeting. This way we keep all of the actual >> > > > >> > conversation >> > > > >> in the >> > > > >> > list, but we also make it easier to actually have a >> > > > >> > 'conversation' at >> > > > >> the same time. >> > > > >> > It is hard to beat real time when working through this >> > > > >> > sort of >> > stuff. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Does this make sense to others? Thoughts? >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Will >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > *Will STEVENS* >> > > > >> > Lead Developer >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > *CloudOps* *| *Cloud Solutions Experts >> > > > >> > 420 rue Guy *|* Montreal *|* Quebec *|* H3J 1S6 w >> > > > >> > cloudops.com >> > > > >> > *|* tw @CloudOps_ >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Animesh Chaturvedi < >> > > > >> > animesh.chaturv...@citrix.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > Wearing my PMC hat and with past experience on these >> > > > >> > > discussions we have not made much progress on mailing >> > > > >> > > list despite agreeing on the goals and have locked >> > > > >> > > horns. One possibility after reading Chip's email and >> > > > >> > > concerns I see is that, we create a wiki outlining the >> > > > >> > > problem space, possible >> > > > >> > > solution(s) and their specific pros and cons and have >> > > > >> > > people >> > > > >> collaborate. >> > > > >> > > Once a general consensus is there and wiki is stable we >> > > > >> > > can bring it back to the mailing list for final >> > > > >> > > approval. This is open as well as requires participant a >> > > > >> > > higher degree of commitment to collaborate >> > > > and >> > > > >> > > will be more structured. >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Thanks >> > > > >> > > Animesh >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Chip Childers >> > > > >> > > > <chipchild...@apache.org> >> > > > >> > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > Steve, >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > (Speaking with my PMC hat on, but not as someone >> > > > >> > > > > that has the >> > > > time >> > > > >> > > > > to help with this process) >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > I love the idea of moving forward with resolving >> > > > >> > > > > some of the quality process / tooling / etc... >> > > > >> > > > > challenges that we face as a project and community. >> > > > >> > > > > I also love the idea that companies >> > > > getting >> > > > >> > > > > commercial value from this project are talking (as >> > > > >> > > > > companies) about how to best support the project >> > > > >> > > > > through either directing their employees to work on >> > > > >> > > > > this problem, allowing those >> > > > interested >> > > > >> > > > > the time to do so, and / or offering (as Citrix did) >> > > > >> > > > > required hardware/software resources to make >> > > > >> > > > > improvements for the common good. Importantly, I >> > > > >> > > > > like that the companies involved are mutually >> > > > >> > > > > agreeing that this is for >> > the >> > > common good. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > That said, I have a concern about the outline below, >> > > > specifically >> > > > >> > > > > in how the definition of approach and eventual >> > > > >> > > > > execution are >> > > > >> handled. >> > > > >> > > > > The proposal of taking this off-list until there is >> > > > >> > > > > a "proposal >> > > > to >> > > > >> > > ratify" >> > > > >> > > > > is what I'd like to see changed. I would fully >> > > > >> > > > > expect that a fleshed out proposal hitting the list >> > > > >> > > > > would be met with more discussion than you would >> > > > >> > > > > like (and perhaps even met with >> > > > >> frustration). >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > What has worked well for us in the past, where there >> > > > >> > > > > is a need >> > > > to >> > > > >> > > > > have those interested in "doing work" to be able to >> > > > >> > > > > focus on >> > > > that >> > > > >> > > > > work, has been to start with a call for interested >> > > > >> > > > > parties (as >> > > > you >> > > > >> > > > > did). Then, using a combination of threads on this >> > > > >> > > > > list and >> > > > "live" >> > > > >> > > > > meetings, make progress on defining the requirements >> > > > >> > > > > and >> > > > approach >> > > > >> > incrementally. >> > > > >> > > > > Execution of any work should similarly be open and >> > > > >> > > > > shared on >> > > > this >> > > > >> list. >> > > > >> > > > > Throughout that process, allowing comments and >> > > > >> > > > > openings for participants are critical. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > One of the things we learned about using "live" >> > > > >> > > > > meetings to >> > > > speed >> > > > >> > > > > up the consensus process in the past is to make sure >> > > > >> > > > > that while they are fantastic at allowing the >> > > > >> > > > > participants to understand >> > > > each >> > > > >> > > > > other, it's critical to remember that (1) there are >> > > > >> > > > > no project decisions made outside of the mailing >> > > > >> > > > > lists and >> > > > >> > > > > (2) that it's important to have minutes or notes >> > > > >> > > > > from those live meetings >> > > > shared >> > > > >> > > > > with the community as >> > > > >> > > a >> > > > >> > > > whole. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Now a very real concern that some of us have is >> > > > >> > > > > getting bogged down in arguments based on opinion, >> > > > >> > > > > especially the >> > "drive >> > > by" >> > > > >> > > > > opinions. This issue (plus challenges with people >> > > > >> > > > > violently agreeing with each other, yet talking past >> > > > >> > > > > each other), is what >> > > > I >> > > > >> > > > > believe has held up meaningful progress. To deal >> > > > >> > > > > with this, I suggest we all remember that projects >> > > > >> > > > > at the ASF are about supporting those that "DO", >> > > > >> > > > > while giving opportunity for participation and >> > > > >> > > > > comment from those that might not currently be >> > > > >> > > > > "DOING". But those that are doing the work, and >> > > > >> > > > > collaborating to reach a shared goal, shouldn't let >> > > > >> > > > > a lack of 100% consensus on >> > > > >> every >> > > > >> > aspect hold back progress. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > As someone who will not be "doing" anything for this >> > > > >> > > > > effort, but has an interest in maintaining this >> > > > >> > > > > community's health and >> > > > seeing >> > > > >> > > > > it continue to succeed, I hope my suggestions and >> > > > >> > > > > comments are >> > > > >> helpful. >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > -chip >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > On Mon, Dec 01, 2014 at 07:12:27PM +0000, Steve >> > > > >> > > > > Wilson >> > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> Hi Everyone, >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> It was great to get to see a number of you at the >> > > > >> > > > >> recent CCC in >> > > > >> > > Budapest. >> > > > >> > > > While I was there, I got to meet face to face with >> > > > >> > > > individuals working >> > > > >> > > for several >> > > > >> > > > companies that have a real stake in the commercial >> > > > >> > > > success of the >> > > > >> > > CloudStack >> > > > >> > > > project. >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> After joining Citrix (and becoming involved in >> > > > >> > > > >> CloudStack) >> > > > about >> > > > >> > > > >> a >> > > > >> > > year ago, >> > > > >> > > > I’ve come to believe that we need to do more to mature >> > > > >> > > > our quality >> > > > >> > > practices >> > > > >> > > > around this codebase. We all like to say >> > > > >> > > > #cloudstackworks (and >> > > > it’s >> > > > >> > > true), but >> > > > >> > > > this is a massive codebase that’s used in the most >> > > > >> > > > demanding >> > > > >> > > situations. We >> > > > >> > > > have large telecommunications companies and >> > > > >> > > > enterprises who are betting >> > > > >> > > their >> > > > >> > > > businesses on this software. It has to be great! >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> There has been quite a bit of discussion on the >> > > > >> > > > >> mailing list in >> > > > >> > > recent months >> > > > >> > > > about how we improve in this area. There is plenty of >> > > > >> > > > passion, >> > > > but >> > > > >> > > > we >> > > > >> > > haven’t >> > > > >> > > > made enough concrete progress as a community. In my >> > > > >> > > > discussions with key contributors as CCC, there was >> > > > >> > > > general agreement that the DEV list isn’t >> > > > >> > > a good >> > > > >> > > > forum for hashing out these kinds of things. Email is >> > > > >> > > > too low-bandwidth >> > > > >> > > and too >> > > > >> > > > impersonal. >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> At CCC, I discussed with several people the idea >> > > > >> > > > >> that we commission a >> > > > >> > > small >> > > > >> > > > sub team to go hash out a proposal for how we handle >> > > > >> > > > the following topics within the ACS community (which >> > > > >> > > > can then be brought back to the larger community for >> > > > >> > > > ratification): >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> * Continuous integration and test automation >> > > > >> > > > >> * Gating of commits >> > > > >> > > > >> * Overall commit workflow >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> We are looking for volunteers to commit to being >> > > > >> > > > >> part of this >> > > > >> team. >> > > > >> > > This >> > > > >> > > > would imply a serious commitment. We don’t want >> > > > >> > > > hangers on or >> > > > >> observers. >> > > > >> > > > This will entail real work and late night meetings. >> > > > >> > > > We’re looking for >> > > > >> > > people who >> > > > >> > > > are serious contributors to the codebase. >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> From Citrix, David Nalley and Animesh Chaturvedi >> > > > >> > > > >> have booth >> > > > told >> > > > >> > > > >> me >> > > > >> > > they’re >> > > > >> > > > willing to commit to this project. They’ve both >> > > > >> > > > managed ACS releases >> > > > >> > > and have >> > > > >> > > > a really good view into the current process — and I >> > > > >> > > > know both are >> > > > >> > > passionate >> > > > >> > > > about improving our process. From my CCC discussions, >> > > > >> > > > I believe there >> > > > >> > > are >> > > > >> > > > individuals from Schuberg Philis, Shape Blue and Cloud >> > > > >> > > > Ops who are >> > > > >> > > willing to >> > > > >> > > > commit to this process. >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> If you are willing to be part of this team to drive >> > > > >> > > > >> forward our >> > > > >> > > community, >> > > > >> > > > please reply here. >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> Thanks, >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> -Steve >> > > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> Steve Wilson >> > > > >> > > > >> VP & Product Unit Manager Cloud Software Citrix >> > > > >> > > > >> @virtualsteve >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > Daan >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Daan >> > > >
