> The process we all agreed to is being avoided, so I hope we can get back on > track here. Words matter. I don't think anyone is avoiding anything here, I think CEP-1 was a first draft, way too large, and it's been chaotic and confusing to transition from that to where we are now with a realistic scope of things being considered for a cut of the sidecar release.
So to clarify what we all agreed on (which I don't remember the details of already; a month in 2024 is roughly 10 dog-years or so /cry) so I'm going to "guess": 1. We draft a new CEP talking about the scope for the actual first sidecar release 2. We discuss it on the dev list 3. We vote That about right? I'd only advocate for doing this for this release because it's superseding the old CEP-1, and don't expect any process like this for subsequent releases. Just my .02; receptive to other opinions and perspectives as always. On Fri, Nov 15, 2024, at 6:33 PM, Patrick McFadin wrote: > It's less the release than the community agreeing to what is being > released. If this is an official Cassandra project, the PMC has > oversight and there needs to be a consensus vote on what we are > including in the project. Even pre-existing code that was donated as a > sub-project has gone through the CEP process: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CASSANDRA/CEP-8%3A+DataStax+Drivers+Donation > > On October 15, the discussion was about creating a new CEP-1, so the > previous version was archived. The process we all agreed to is being > avoided, so I hope we can get back on track here. > > Patrick > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2024 at 12:08 PM Francisco Guerrero <fran...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > > Hi Patrick, > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's any precedent > > on creating a CEP for a release. My understanding is that releases > > are driven by release vote. > > > > Best, > > - Francisco > > > > On 2024/11/15 20:04:10 Patrick McFadin wrote: > > > Just a reminder of the CEP. That's something that needs to be > > > completed and voted on before any release. > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 15, 2024 at 11:46 AM Francisco Guerrero <fran...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi community, > > > > > > > > Saranya and I wanted to give an update on where things stand > > > > with the Sidecar release. We've been working towards completing > > > > the remaining JIRAs[1][2][3][4][5][6] in preparation for the Sidecar > > > > release. > > > > > > > > We've already completed the authentication piece [7] and it has been > > > > merged as of last week (Special thanks to Yifan Cai for all the feedback > > > > on the feature). > > > > > > > > We expect to have everything ready mid-December, so we can > > > > propose cutting a release of Sidecar. > > > > > > > > Looking forward to any feedback from the community. > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > - Saranya Krishnakumar & Francisco Guerrero > > > > > > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-120 > > > > [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-121 > > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-122 > > > > [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-160 > > > > [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-161 > > > > [6] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-159 > > > > [7] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-156 > > > > > > > > On 2024/10/15 18:47:39 Patrick McFadin wrote: > > > > > I have moved the original CEP-1 to the Archived section of Confluence: > > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/x/gImzBQ > > > > > > > > > > You can go ahead a create v2 of CEP-1 using the CEP template. > > > > > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2024 at 10:12 AM Josh McKenzie <jmcken...@apache.org> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Should make sure we snapshot it and/or history retention is > > > > > > sufficient for > > > > > > us to preserve the effort that went into the original. To Joey's > > > > > > point, > > > > > > there's a lot of hard work that went into it as it stands it'd be a > > > > > > shame > > > > > > to lose. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2024, at 1:07 PM, Dinesh Joshi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > My preference would be to simply update CEP-1 instead of starting a > > > > > > new > > > > > > one. It achieves the same end goal and we can create new CEPs for > > > > > > the scope > > > > > > that is deferred. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dinesh > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 4:51 PM Patrick McFadin <pmcfa...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that all sounds good. Let's get that new CEP started then. > > > > > > I think > > > > > > there are opinions flying around based on last week's discussions > > > > > > that need > > > > > > to coalesce. > > > > > > > > > > > > Patrick > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 3:19 PM Francisco Guerrero > > > > > > <fran...@apache.org> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > From my point of view CEP-1 is overly broad in terms it wants to > > > > > > achieve. > > > > > > My understanding is that CEPs have to have a well-defined scope. > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Joey that we should close CEP-1 with the features I > > > > > > have > > > > > > proposed earlier in this thread. And have any future Sidecar work > > > > > > captured > > > > > > in > > > > > > subsequent CEPs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > > > - Francisco > > > > > > > > > > > > On 2024/10/14 21:58:55 Joseph Lynch wrote: > > > > > > > Hi everyone! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am curious what Dinesh's perspective is but I think the specific > > > > > > > enumerated scope in CEP-1 isn't super critical to be honest. That > > > > > > > CEP > > > > > > > successfully (imo) built consensus that the community wants a > > > > > > > separate > > > > > > > management process, and that sidecar both exists today and has > > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > functionality (which is great!). I agree with Jon and others in > > > > > > > these > > > > > > > threads that the functionality isn't super accessible until some > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > tickets Francisco mentioned are worked on and a release is made. > > > > > > > I also > > > > > > > agree with Francisco that getting to a release, even if it is an > > > > > > > alpha, > > > > > > > should be the goal - let's get to a release. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am personally fine closing CEP-1 and saying "This CEP has been > > > > > > superseded > > > > > > > by subsequent CEPs - future work in the sidecar requiring > > > > > > > community > > > > > > > consensus will have separate CEPs as needed". That doesn't mean > > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > scope in CEP-1 isn't useful, and I hope some of the gaps are > > > > > > > added in the > > > > > > > future, but I think we can release without them and the focus > > > > > > > should be > > > > > > on > > > > > > > the gaps for release not the gaps in functionality with CEP-1. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also I should mention I am extremely excited to see all the great > > > > > > features > > > > > > > that have landed and that there is a place outside the main DB > > > > > > > for those > > > > > > > kinds of innovations to be tried out that doesn't conflict with > > > > > > > the main > > > > > > > process. In my mind, having that place was the purpose of CEP-1, > > > > > > > which is > > > > > > > done - the specific enumerated features are less important in my > > > > > > > opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Joey > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 4:09 PM Patrick McFadin > > > > > > > <pmcfa...@gmail.com> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What are we going to do with CEP-1? Cut and rescope in a new > > > > > > > > CEP or > > > > > > > > rewrite CEP-1? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Oct 14, 2024 at 11:18 AM Francisco Guerrero < > > > > > > fran...@apache.org> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Hi folks, > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> It was great meeting some of you in person at Community over > > > > > > > >> Code > > > > > > where > > > > > > > >> we had a chance to discuss the Cassandra Sidecar project. A > > > > > > > >> lot of > > > > > > > >> you expressed interest in having a release of Sidecar to start > > > > > > > >> using > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> existing features in the project: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> - C* adapters for versions 4.0, 4.1, 5.0 and trunk > > > > > > > >> - Cassandra Analytics support > > > > > > > >> - Restoring SSTables from S3-compatible object storage > > > > > > > >> - Mutual TLS authentication > > > > > > > >> - Role base access control > > > > > > > >> - Cluster health checks > > > > > > > >> - Observability > > > > > > > >> - Sidecar Client > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Some of the call-outs in this thread of things we need for a > > > > > > > >> release: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> - Documentation > > > > > > > >> - Bug fixes [1][2][3] > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> These are other things mentioned in the thread, where we would > > > > > > > >> like > > > > > > help > > > > > > > >> from the community: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> - vNode support [4] > > > > > > > >> - Backup support [5] > > > > > > > >> - Bulk APIs [6] > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Once we have documentation and the bug fixes mentioned above, > > > > > > > >> I will > > > > > > > >> start a thread vote for a release of Cassandra Sidecar 0.1 > > > > > > > >> alpha. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> We want the community to benefit from the features already > > > > > > > >> present in > > > > > > > >> Sidecar. The more community engagement we have, the more > > > > > > > >> feature-rich > > > > > > > >> will become. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Additionally, we can leverage easy-cass-stress to have > > > > > > > >> Cassandra > > > > > > Sidecar > > > > > > > >> included in your Cassandra clusters, so we can easily start > > > > > > > >> trying it > > > > > > out. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Please let me know your thoughts on this. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Best, > > > > > > > >> - Francisco > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-120 > > > > > > > >> [2] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-121 > > > > > > > >> [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-122 > > > > > > > >> [4] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-149 > > > > > > > >> [5] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-148 > > > > > > > >> [6] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-3 > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> On 2024/10/03 12:05:14 Josh McKenzie wrote: > > > > > > > >> > I'm tentatively in favor of the idea of us cutting releases > > > > > > > >> > for all > > > > > > our > > > > > > > >> ecosystem dependencies as a blocker to cutting a major with > > > > > > > >> Cassandra > > > > > > > >> proper. I say tentatively since we've had trouble getting > > > > > > > >> majors > > > > > > across the > > > > > > > >> line for awhile so adding more dependencies to that feels > > > > > > > >> risky, > > > > > > however I > > > > > > > >> think the improvement to user experience justifies it. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > Also - I suspect the effort required to get subprojects > > > > > > > >> > across the > > > > > > line > > > > > > > >> will be quite a bit less than the mainline DB. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > If this is something there's agreement / consensus on, I'd > > > > > > > >> > be happy > > > > > > to > > > > > > > >> take on the role of driving that coordination in the future. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024, at 3:16 PM, Jon Haddad wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > Mostly Analytics, which should not be a blocker for > > > > > > > >> > > > Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Yes, agreed. I'm just trying to understand the context of > > > > > > > >> > > the > > > > > > vnode > > > > > > > >> statement and how we're framing 1.0 sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > We definitely need to support 5.0 for the Analytics > > > > > > > >> > > > release, but > > > > > > > >> that's orthogonal to Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > It is, unless we're endorsing the analytics library as a > > > > > > > >> > > primary > > > > > > > >> reason to use sidecar. Then it becomes a dependency people > > > > > > > >> rely on, > > > > > > and I > > > > > > > >> don't want it blocking people from upgrading. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Yeah, definitely. I agree that we need to support the > > > > > > > >> > > > latest > > > > > > > >> released version of Cassandra in ecosystem projects. However, > > > > > > > >> without > > > > > > > >> official releases there won't be adoption and without adoption > > > > > > > >> there > > > > > > won't > > > > > > > >> be feedback from the community on what features / improvements > > > > > > > >> are > > > > > > needed. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > I don't expect that our first release will be feature > > > > > > > >> > > complete, > > > > > > but > > > > > > > >> it should be at least compelling. I'm still not aware of what > > > > > > > >> functionality exists that would meet that requirement. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Think about this from the perspective of reading a blog > > > > > > > >> > > post. > > > > > > We're > > > > > > > >> excited to announce sidecar 1.0! Here's what you can do: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > 1. Backup / restore? > > > > > > > >> > > 2. ? > > > > > > > >> > > 3. ? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > All I'm asking for are 3 reasons why people should care. > > > > > > > >> > > If one > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> them is backups, do we provide more flexible backup targets > > > > > > > >> than S3, > > > > > > and if > > > > > > > >> we provide incremental / continuous backup options? Is there a > > > > > > scheduler > > > > > > > >> or do people need to roll their own? Is it coordinated, or is > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > intent > > > > > > > >> that people handle it on their own? > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > I work with a lot of end users - this is the type of thing > > > > > > > >> > > that > > > > > > > >> affects people and can either help or harm the project image. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > Jon > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:40 PM Francisco Guerrero < > > > > > > fran...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > By vnode support, do you mean the analytics library? > > > > > > > >> > >> > Or do > > > > > > other > > > > > > > >> features > > > > > > > >> > >> > in sidecar not work with vnodes? > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> Mostly Analytics, which should not be a blocker for > > > > > > > >> > >> Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> However, I do > > > > > > > >> > >> feel there should be more testing around vnodes in > > > > > > > >> > >> Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > If we're talking about analytics, that gets a little > > > > > > complicated. > > > > > > > >> Are we > > > > > > > >> > >> > also then talking about 1.0'ing analytics? If so, I > > > > > > > >> > >> > think we > > > > > > need > > > > > > > >> support > > > > > > > >> > >> > for 5.0 and BTI there. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> We need to release Analytics at some point as well, we > > > > > > > >> > >> should > > > > > > have a > > > > > > > >> similar > > > > > > > >> > >> discuss thread regarding Analytics. We definitely need to > > > > > > > >> > >> support > > > > > > > >> 5.0 for the > > > > > > > >> > >> Analytics release, but that's orthogonal to Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > Increasing the size of the ecosystem is challenging... > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> Yeah, definitely. I agree that we need to support the > > > > > > > >> > >> latest > > > > > > > >> released version > > > > > > > >> > >> of Cassandra in ecosystem projects. However, without > > > > > > > >> > >> official > > > > > > > >> releases > > > > > > > >> > >> there won't be adoption and without adoption there won't > > > > > > > >> > >> be > > > > > > feedback > > > > > > > >> from > > > > > > > >> > >> the community on what features / improvements are needed. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> On 2024/10/02 18:05:42 Jon Haddad wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > By vnode support, do you mean the analytics library? > > > > > > > >> > >> > Or do > > > > > > other > > > > > > > >> features > > > > > > > >> > >> > in sidecar not work with vnodes? > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > If we're talking about analytics, that gets a little > > > > > > complicated. > > > > > > > >> Are we > > > > > > > >> > >> > also then talking about 1.0'ing analytics? If so, I > > > > > > > >> > >> > think we > > > > > > need > > > > > > > >> support > > > > > > > >> > >> > for 5.0 and BTI there. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > In my opinion, if something core to the project has > > > > > > > >> > >> > official > > > > > > > >> releases, such > > > > > > > >> > >> > as drivers or operational tooling that people depend > > > > > > > >> > >> > on, it > > > > > > should > > > > > > > >> also > > > > > > > >> > >> > support the latest version of Cassandra, on release. It > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > >> look good > > > > > > > >> > >> > if we release C* without usable drivers or tooling to > > > > > > > >> > >> > operate > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > >> It is > > > > > > > >> > >> > massively deflating to announce we just released 5.0 > > > > > > (exciting!) > > > > > > > >> but you > > > > > > > >> > >> > can't use it for 6 months because you're using > > > > > > > >> > >> > analytics lib > > > > > > and > > > > > > > >> the people > > > > > > > >> > >> > that contribute to it has better things to do with their > > > > > > time. I > > > > > > > >> think > > > > > > > >> > >> > part of the obligation of maintaining these projects > > > > > > > >> > >> > needs to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > >> keeping up > > > > > > > >> > >> > with latest releases. If that can't be done, we should > > > > > > continue > > > > > > > >> to treat > > > > > > > >> > >> > it as a use-as-your-own-risk thing without official > > > > > > > >> > >> > releases. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > Increasing the size of the ecosystem is challenging... > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > Jon > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 1:21 PM Francisco Guerrero < > > > > > > > >> fran...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > >> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hi folks, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Thanks for all the input. I'm trying to gather all the > > > > > > comments, > > > > > > > >> and from > > > > > > > >> > >> > > what I > > > > > > > >> > >> > > can gather it seems that most of the opinions are > > > > > > > >> > >> > > converging > > > > > > > >> towards > > > > > > > >> > >> > > scoping > > > > > > > >> > >> > > a Sidecar release. These are the items that were > > > > > > > >> > >> > > called out > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> we will > > > > > > > >> > >> > > need > > > > > > > >> > >> > > for a release: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > - Documentation > > > > > > > >> > >> > > - Authorization / Authentication > > > > > > > >> > >> > > - vnode support > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > There are some smaller bug fixes that need to be > > > > > > > >> > >> > > included > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> we can label > > > > > > > >> > >> > > as part of the 1.0 release.[1][2][3] > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > If there are any other tasks we need to completed, I > > > > > > encourage > > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > community > > > > > > > >> > >> > > to create JIRAs that can be in the release milestone > > > > > > > >> > >> > > for the > > > > > > > >> Sidecar. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > I agree with Stefan that OpenAPI is desirable. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > OpenAPI is > > > > > > > >> something I've > > > > > > > >> > >> > > been > > > > > > > >> > >> > > looking into as well. I'm also glad to see Abhijeet > > > > > > > >> > >> > > can help > > > > > > > >> with the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > documentation effort, I can also help on that front. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hopefully, I've captured your comments as truly as > > > > > > > >> > >> > > possible. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Thanks again for all the feedback. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Best, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > - Francisco > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > [1] > > > > > > > >> > >> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-120 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > [2] > > > > > > > >> > >> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-121 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > [3] > > > > > > > >> > >> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-122 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > On 2024/10/02 15:29:20 Jon Haddad wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > When I developed some of the original sidecar code, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > it was > > > > > > > >> based on REST > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > Easy, which would have allowed us to generate the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > spec > > > > > > > >> automatically. I > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > did this in a similar project. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > That was removed here: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRASC-57 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > But unfortunately it looks like you can't generate > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > the spec > > > > > > > >> from the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > code. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > Disappointing, that functionality was really > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > useful. I > > > > > > wish > > > > > > > >> someone had > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > asked me before gutting it. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > Jon > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 11:16 AM Štefan Miklošovič < > > > > > > > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > Something like this: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://instaclustr.github.io/instaclustr-icarus-go-client/ > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 4:54 PM Štefan Miklošovič < > > > > > > > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> While documenting endpoints please use something > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> like > > > > > > > >> OpenAPI > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> specification. The sidecar should expose this > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> document > > > > > > > >> itself so when > > > > > > > >> > >> > > I go > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> to this and that URL, I see all endpoints, I put > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> the > > > > > > > >> payloads / > > > > > > > >> > >> > > parameters > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> for them and I can just directly call that, no > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> messing > > > > > > with > > > > > > > >> curl / > > > > > > > >> > >> > > wget or > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> programmatically or whatever like that. The > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> barrier to > > > > > > > >> exercise the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > basic > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> functionality has to virtually not be there. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 4:13 PM Abhijeet Dubey < > > > > > > > >> > >> > > dubey.abhijee...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> Hi folks, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> I have been using Sidecar recently and have > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> found some > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> its > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> functionalities to be quite useful. Hari and I > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> are also > > > > > > > >> working on > > > > > > > >> > >> > > CEP-40 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> which aims to introduce live migration features > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> in > > > > > > Sidecar > > > > > > > >> in the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> near future. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> However, as others have mentioned, I agree that > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> it > > > > > > > >> currently lacks > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> proper documentation. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> Since this is an official Apache project, I > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> believe > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> creating > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> comprehensive documentation would be > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> beneficial. This > > > > > > > >> documentation > > > > > > > >> > >> > > should > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> include an overview, architecture, a list and > > > > > > description > > > > > > > >> of various > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> endpoints, and some examples or tutorials on > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> how to use > > > > > > > >> Sidecar's > > > > > > > >> > >> > > features. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> This documentation would help people get > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> started with > > > > > > > >> Sidecar and > > > > > > > >> > >> > > lower > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> the entry barrier for many. We can update the > > > > > > documentation > > > > > > > >> > >> > > incrementally > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> as needed, along with future enhancements and > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> new > > > > > > > >> features. However, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> creating some form of formal documentation > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> would be > > > > > > very > > > > > > > >> helpful. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> To this end I'm willing and highly interested in > > > > > > writing > > > > > > > >> some form of > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> formal documentation for the Sidecar project. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> Please > > > > > > let > > > > > > > >> me know your > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> thoughts/opinions on this proposal. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 6:46 PM Štefan > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> Miklošovič < > > > > > > > >> > >> > > smikloso...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> Totally agree with Jon here basically on all > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> fronts. > > > > > > > >> Apache > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Cassandra > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> Sidecar was always a hard nut to crack for me, > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> that is > > > > > > > >> probably why > > > > > > > >> > >> > > I have > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> not been involved with that a lot even that is > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> a great > > > > > > > >> tool to have > > > > > > > >> > >> > > and be > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> invested in as I was writing my own sidecar > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> and I > > > > > > found a > > > > > > > >> lot of > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> similarities and problems Apache's sidecar > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> tries to > > > > > > fix. > > > > > > > >> There was > > > > > > > >> > >> > > some > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> invisible barrier I have never managed to jump > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> over. I > > > > > > > >> was looking > > > > > > > >> > >> > > around > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> and I am very sorry if I just have not found > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> it yet > > > > > > but > > > > > > > >> there is > > > > > > > >> > >> > > not a list > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> of endpoints a sidecar has, is there? In > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> readme and > > > > > > dev > > > > > > > >> docs there > > > > > > > >> > >> > > is just > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> nothing. Taking it at a face value I just > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> don't know > > > > > > what > > > > > > > >> Sidecar is > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> capable of and how to use it. I see in the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> commit > > > > > > history > > > > > > > >> there is > > > > > > > >> > >> > > a bunch > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> of commits mentioning S3 but it is a total > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> blackbox > > > > > > for > > > > > > > >> me as a > > > > > > > >> > >> > > potential > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> user. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:52 PM Jon Haddad < > > > > > > > >> j...@rustyrazorblade.com> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I don't think we should release sidecar 1.0 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> without > > > > > > any > > > > > > > >> docs. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I took a look through the closed JIRAs to see > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> what's > > > > > > > >> there. Here's > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> what I found, please correct me if there's > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> more: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> - Lots of stuff related to analytics. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I would be pretty excited for this, but the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> analytics > > > > > > > >> library only > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> works with single token clusters. Most folks > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> don't > > > > > > run > > > > > > > >> Cassandra > > > > > > > >> > >> > > this > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> way. I realize there's some element of > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> everyone > > > > > > needs > > > > > > > >> to scratch > > > > > > > >> > >> > > their own > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> itch, but I don't think we can really call > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> this a > > > > > > useful > > > > > > > >> feature > > > > > > > >> > >> > > if the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> overwhelming majority of folks can't use it. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> I've > > > > > > > >> worked with a > > > > > > > >> > >> > > couple > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> hundred teams over the years and can only > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> think of 1 > > > > > > org > > > > > > > >> outside > > > > > > > >> > >> > > of Apple > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> and Netflix that used 1 token, and It was a > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> cluster > > > > > > that > > > > > > > >> predated > > > > > > > >> > >> > > v-nodes. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> The analytics repo says it's compatible with > > > > > > Cassandra > > > > > > > >> 4, but not > > > > > > > >> > >> > > 5. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> - Backup & Restore from S3 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Is this compatible with other cloud providers > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> or > > > > > > object > > > > > > > >> stores? It > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> specifically lists S3 in JIRA. I haven't > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> looked at > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> source > > > > > > > >> > >> > > yet. Am I > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> correct in reading it supports backing up > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> snapshots, > > > > > > no > > > > > > > >> continuous > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> backups? Seems like we should have at least > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> feature > > > > > > > >> parity with > > > > > > > >> > >> > > Medusa if > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> we're going to release something here. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> All the other closed JIRAs look related to > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> these two > > > > > > > >> items. So the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> question is, are we releasing 1.0 as an > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> limited S3 > > > > > > > >> backup and > > > > > > > >> > >> > > restore > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> tool? One that prevents you from upgrading to > > > > > > Cassandra > > > > > > > >> 5 if you > > > > > > > >> > >> > > happen to > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> use single token clusters? > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Who is the target audience? > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> Jon > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2024 at 2:41 AM Dinesh Joshi < > > > > > > > >> djo...@apache.org> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> Currently the Sidecar has a lot of > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> functionality > > > > > > that is > > > > > > > >> > >> > > immediately > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> usable by the community. Apart from minor > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> fixes, the > > > > > > > >> AuthN/Z > > > > > > > >> > >> > > story would be > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> wrapped up soon. Post this, I would propose > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> moving > > > > > > > >> forward with > > > > > > > >> > >> > > cutting a > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> release with the existing feature set so we > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> can get > > > > > > > >> this in the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > hands of > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> our community. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> On Tue, Oct 1, 2024 at 8:27 PM guo Maxwell < > > > > > > > >> cclive1...@gmail.com> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> Have the same question ： what ‘s the plan ？ > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> Jeff Jirsa <jji...@gmail.com>于2024年10月2日 > > > > > > 周三上午10:43写道： > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2024, at 7:26 PM, Josh McKenzie < > > > > > > > >> jmcken...@apache.org > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> However it is used by a number of other > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> features > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > >> dependency > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> such as analytics, backup/restore, repair, > > > > > > metrics, > > > > > > > >> and CDC > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> It seems like a natural pressure relief > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> valve for > > > > > > > >> moving > > > > > > > >> > >> > > operations > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> out of a core C* node that are well served > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> out of > > > > > > > >> process. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> Yea, but the point of the foundation is to > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> RELEASE > > > > > > > >> software for > > > > > > > >> > >> > > the > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> public good, and the link asserting > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> consensus was > > > > > > > >> dec2018, so > > > > > > > >> > >> > > its’ 5.5 > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> years and no releases. > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> What’s the plan here? > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> -- > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> *Abhijeet* > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >>> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
