PMC member is a committer by default (in the past, we’ve had difficulty electing a member to the PMC without giving them commit access, so electing a member to the PMC without granting them commit access is at the very least nontrivial)
The process is the same for all top level projects - the PMC itself nominates and elects new members. The current PMC is listed here: https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra , if you’re curious about who can nominate at this time. Because it’s driven by nominations at the PMC level, the process is the same, but the actual qualities that lead to a nomination likely vary project to project. Ed mentioned that in Hive, they’ve had members on the PMC that were primarily contributors to docs or had a single meaningful change to the build system. That’s a project-by-project decision, but generally, a diverse PMC helps ensure diversity in the community and helps drive outside contributions, so diversity is encouraged. Looking at the roster, most of the current PMC members were nominated/elected because they’re active committers with deep internal knowledge and a history of contributing, some are nominated/elected because they’re active within the ASF and help us guide the project (I like to imagine I was nominated in part due to past contributions, but also my familiarity with the greater non-Datastax Cassandra community). On 11/6/16, 9:22 AM, "Jonathan Haddad" <j...@jonhaddad.com> wrote: >I took a look at https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html, and it doesn't seem >to give any guidelines on who should be on the PMC. My assumption has >always been the most active committers become PMC members, but it sounds >like that's not the case on other projects. Is the process to be added to >the PMC supposed to be the same everywhere, or is it up to the project? >Can you be on the PMC but not have commit access? > >On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 5:04 AM Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> wrote: > >> Sorry one typo below: >> >> Where I said: >> >> “The Cassandra MVP comment was also not a diss on you as much as it was >>me >> saying – ideally – I would hope that >> the Apache Cassandra MVP people promote the concept of their community >> leaders becoming “ASF members”, >> and that Cassandra MVPs are great – but secondary – to the >> responsibilities of the PMC to move towards ensuring >> its community understands the Apache Way.” >> >> I meant to say: >> >> “The Cassandra MVP comment was also not a diss on you as much as it was >>me >> saying – ideally – I would hope that >> the Apache Cassandra *PMC* people promote the concept of their community >> leaders becoming “ASF members”, >> and that Cassandra MVPs are great – but secondary – to the >> responsibilities of the PMC to move towards ensuring >> its community understands the Apache Way.” >> >> Thanks. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> On 11/6/16, 6:53 AM, "Chris Mattmann" <mattm...@apache.org> wrote: >> >> For the record, your breakdown of the email trying to decipher what >>I >> meant is not >> correct. It’s not your fault, but email doesn’t convey tone, nor do >> you know what I am >> thinking or what I was trying to say. In fact, I was actually saying >> the PMC wasn’t doing its job, >> because (as I stated to you months ago), you (and many other >>community >> members of >> Cassandra) *should* have a binding vote. It wasn’t discrediting to >>you >> to point out that >> you don’t have the PMC or committer credentials; it was an example >> trying to point out >> that you *should* have them. And that you clearly care about the >> project as I believe you >> have developed a book on the subject of Apache Cassandra a while >>back >> IIRC which in Tika, >> Nutch, OODT, and a number of other projects would have earned you >>the >> ability to have a >> direct say in those Apache projects. And a lot of others. >> >> It’s these systematic fracturing of the community under the guise >>of a >> single vendor who >> has stated that they care about Cassandra (note the omission of >> Apache), but by demonstration >> has shown they either don’t understand, or don’t care about the >>Apache >> part of the equation. >> That’s what caused me to become frustrated when the following >>sequence >> of events >> happened: >> >> 1. After the Board meeting Mark Thomas one of our Directors took >>point >> on engaging >> the Apache Cassandra PMC with some of the concerns brought up over >>the >> past 6 >> months and the role I was filling there became a back seat for me. >> 2. I saw over the past few days on a Twitter feed retweeted by an >>ASF >> member that >> Kelly Sommers (whom I have never met in person and do not know >> previously) was asking >> questions and stating negative things about the ASF that I believed >> could be much better >> understood by bringing them here to the ASF mailing lists for Apache >> Cassandra. I suggested >> on Twitter that she bring her concerns to the Apache lists and told >> her which email address >> to send it to. Some of the same people that eventually came onto the >> thread were people >> who were communicating with her on Twitter – this was disappointing >>as >> they could have >> done the same thing, and suggested Kelly come to the lists, Apache >> Cassandra PMC or not. >> 3. After 12 hours I checked back with Kelly and the Twitter dialogue >> had continued with several >> ASF members and even some Board members getting involved. Again, I >> asked Kelly why talk >> there, and why not just talk to the email list which is the >>canonical >> home for Apache Cassandra? >> She told me she sent the mail the prior night. >> 4. So of course I checked (after having already guessed it was stuck >> in moderation) and yes it >> was. What ensued was both frustration by my part and also email >> conversation that was heated >> on both sides. I felt swiped on by a few emails where I had good >> intentions but I felt we were >> wasting time debating whether we *should* moderate something >>through – >> which to me was >> a clear answer (yes). Where I failed there was to recognize that the >> real answer was that the Apache >> Cassandra PMC did not have enough moderators and the people I was >> mostly going back and forth >> with were not the moderators of the mailing lists. >> 5. One positive thing that came from #4 was that at least there are >> more moderators now. I’m not sure >> the reason for the lack of geographically diverse moderators, but >>it’s >> definitely something the PMC should >> check from time to time. Not pointing fingers, simply identifying >> responsibility. >> >> In my emails I used the word “shi*t” and “f’ing”. I didn’t direct >> either of these words at anyone in particular. >> I used them as color in expressing my frustration. It happens from >> time to time. Sorry. >> >> The Cassandra MVP comment was also not a diss on you as much as it >>was >> me saying – ideally – I would hope that >> the Apache Cassandra MVP people promote the concept of their >>community >> leaders becoming “ASF members”, >> and that Cassandra MVPs are great – but secondary – to the >> responsibilities of the PMC to move towards ensuring >> its community understands the Apache Way. >> >> Russell and I have never met in person so he does not really know me >> and nor I him. So he doesn’t know some of >> these nuances that people would normally know having met each other >>in >> mediums besides email or electronically. >> Many of you do not know me either. I will conclude with saying that >>I >> realize many of the people here for Apache >> Cassandra have the best intentions for the project at heart. Please >> realize I do too. I care about the ASF and projects >> and it leads me to send TL;DR emails and/or to use passion in my >> words. That can lead to frustration and to other >> emotions. >> >> Thanks for listening. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> >> >> On 11/5/16, 3:16 PM, "Russell Bradberry" <rbradbe...@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >> For the record, I never said anyone was attempting to make me >> “look bad”. I simply stated that his method of argument was to >>discredit >> me. Below I will break down his response, as I see it, and as others >>who >> have messaged me off list see it as well: >> >> “… You see I’ve been around since 2004 and elected by the >> membership to the Board for the last three years based on merit …” >> >> Here he is showing his superiority by way of tenure, or merit. >> >> “You see I actually understand…” >> >> The use of the term “actually” in this sense is to provide an >> attack against me in an effort to prove that I do not understand. >> >> “…unfortunately you do not have a voice …” >> >> Again, this is a blatant attempt to discredit me and provide >>proof >> that my word is of no worth because I am not on the PMC, nor a >>committer. >> >> “You won’t have a vote in the next Apache Board election.” >> >> Again >> >> “You won’t have a vote in the next Members election.” >> >> Again >> >> “why haven’t you been elected to have a binding voice within the >> project? Please ask yourself that” >> >> This is either an attempt to discredit me, in that I have not >>done >> enough to be elected, or an attempt to state the PMC hasn’t been doing >> their job in recognizing my efforts. >> >> “please ask yourself – what is a “Cassandra MVP” compared to a >> member of the ASF which is home to the project”” >> >> This is not only insinuating that MVP is less than being a >>member >> of the ASF, and because I was given the MVP title, that somehow I am >>less >> than as well. (for the record, I have not asked for the MVP title, it >>was >> awarded, and I do not think that it should have any effect on the >>project >> from an Apache standpoint. Quite simply put, it is just another bullet >> point on a resume) >> >> “I’ve been privy and voted on granting membership to within the >> foundation since 2011” >> >> More attempts to discredit me by showing tenure. >> >> Literally, the first portion of the response was a campaign to >> discredit me in order to demonstrate his merit. The rest of the email >>goes >> to defend a point that I did not make. >> >> Again, I will assert that the complaints the board has are >>valid. >> Datastax may have overstepped bounds and, as a result, put the project >>and >> ASF at risk. I am not an authority on the subject and have not been >>privy >> to the private messages between the board, PMC, and Datastax. What I >>will >> say, is that the tone, vitriol, ad-hominem responses and other >> unprofessional conduct has caused a rift in this community. Most of >>this >> is coming directly from the board, specifically Chris. Furthermore, as >> Aleksey has pointed out, this occurs in the private lists as well. >>This is >> a form of toxic-leadership and is proven to not only be ineffective, but >> also be directly harmful. These issues can, and should, be resolved >> amicably. >> >> Professionalism and Respect, if aren’t, should be of the core >> tenets of any foundation, especially one of the caliber of Apache. >> >> >> >> On 11/5/16, 9:38 AM, "Mark Struberg" <strub...@yahoo.de.INVALID> >> wrote: >> >> Russel, I don't read that out of Chris' answer. >> He just tried to show how community development might look >> like if done a bit more openly. >> >> Do you mind going back to Chris' original reply and re-read >>it >> again? >> I've not interpreted it as anyone trying to make you look >>bad. >> Au contraire! >> >> >> txs and LieGrue, >> strub >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Saturday, 5 November 2016, 13:56, Russell Bradberry < >> rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > It seems that your tactic of argument is to discredit me >> at every level in order >> > to show your superiority of sorts. Let me set this >> straight, I am not >> > attempting to say that I am an authority on ASF or that I >> know how things should >> > be run. I also was not attempting to vilify you in front >>of >> the board or vilify >> > you in any way. My complaint is that your rhetoric is >> unprofessional; and as a >> > representative of the board the language you use is, >> plainly, casting a bad >> > light on the ASF. >> > >> > I understand all of your concerns and was not attempting >>to >> minimize them in any >> > way; they are legitimate concerns. The way you are >>handling >> them is what I am >> > concerned with and the tone you take is what I believe is >> helping divide the >> > community. Being the “villain” as you say is what is the >> problem. If you cast >> > yourself as the villain as a representative of the >> foundation you are then >> > making the foundation look bad. >> > >> > Lastly, I may not have a vote, but I do have a voice. >> Everyone in the community >> > does and can be heard, if not then it isn’t much of a >> community at all. I >> > wouldn’t have you voted off the board nor do I want you to >> be voted off the >> > board, I have not enough information to make a sound >> decision in that regard. >> > >> > All I ask if for some common professionalism and courtesy, >> nothing more. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On 11/4/16, 4:46 PM, "Chris Mattmann" >><mattm...@apache.org> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Hi Russ, >> > >> > Sorry that you feel that way. I’m happy to be the >> villain when it comes to >> > protecting >> > those same ideals you cite regarding Apache in your >> below thread. You see >> > I’ve been >> > around since 2004 and elected by the membership to the >> Board for the last >> > three years >> > based on merit, and contributions towards those ideals >> over a decade of the >> > ASF. >> > I’ve been around longer than Apache Cassandra and this >> community and fully >> > intend >> > for that to continue. My job is not to only care about >> Cassandra. It’s to >> > ensure that the >> > ASF is a vendor neutral ground for ALL of its >>projects. >> You see I actually >> > understand and >> > have read what’s required of me to serve the >>membership >> of the ASF and its >> > communities. >> > I take this VERY seriously. Perhaps more than you >>know. >> > >> > You see the other problem with your complaint about >>me – >> is that >> > unfortunately you >> > do not have a voice to act on that complaint. You >>won’t >> have a vote in the >> > next Apache >> > Board election. You won’t have a vote in the next >> Members election. And >> > *that* is >> > the rub. I wouldn’t even care if you did or not and >>you >> voted against me on >> > the ballot. >> > If the Apache Cassandra PMC or community cared enough >> about you or your >> > contributions >> > to the project, you would have been made a committer, >>or >> PMC member, long >> > ago, and >> > heck you would have even had a chance to become an ASF >> member where you >> > could do >> > more than simply voice your displeasure with my >>actions, >> you would be able >> > to vote with >> > your feet against my tyranny of trying to make this >> project’s management >> > committee >> > understand their responsibilities for the ASF. I don’t >> even consider your >> > requests to have >> > me vilified in front of the Board something that would >> disqualify you for >> > membership in >> > the PMC or committee. If you have been making >> contributions, even discussion >> > threads, >> > answering questions, etc., to the point of your prior >> emails including this >> > one – why haven’t >> > you been elected to have a binding voice within the >> project? Please ask >> > yourself that. >> > >> > In fact, please ask yourself – what is a “Cassandra >>MVP” >> compared to a >> > member of the >> > ASF which is home to the project? Also please go look >>at >> all the people I’ve >> > been privy and >> > voted on granting membership to within the foundation >> since 2011, go look at >> > some of the >> > functioning and healthy projects that don’t have a >> problem with vendor >> > neutrality at the >> > ASF, and *then* come and talk to me about how my >> professional and character >> > isn’t such >> > to stand on the board of the ASF. Again, I’ll wait. >> > >> > If it’s a hostile request to ask that a potentially >> inflammatory Twitter >> > discussion that I attempted >> > to bring about to the *source of the project’s >> discussion here at the ASF* >> > and for a mail summarizing >> > that Twitter discussion to be moderated through within >> 12 hours, and >> > for the PMC of an Apache project to understand its >> commitments regarding >> > having >> > geographically diverse moderators for their Apache >> lists; and if it’s a >> > hostile request to >> > ask that all members of the community including those >> non committers and/or >> > PMC >> > that take to Twitter to voice their concerns when they >> are not sure of even >> > where the >> > canonical discussion for the project is have a voice >> here on the canonical >> > lists for the project >> > then there is something fundamentally wrong with the >> community. I will >> > assert again based >> > on my reading of the facts including archives, code, >> discussions here and >> > outside of the ASF, abuse >> > of trademarks, vendor non-neutrality, tea leaves and >>the >> collective WHOLE of >> > those things that my initial >> > request to bring the conversation on list - that was >> met with the usual >> > random drive by vitriol and my follow >> > up asking how in the bleeping world there were at >>least >> 3 emails questioning >> > whether or not an email >> > should be moderated though - was warranted. >> > >> > I state this as someone who has seen Apache projects >> come and go and will >> > continue to see that, even ones at the same level of >> interest as Cassandra >> > (and much >> > much more too as well). If it’s hostile for a Board >> member to drive the >> > discussions to >> > the mailing list instead of outside sources, then my >> apologies for my >> > hostility. You will >> > continue to get that apology as I continue to do my >>job >> and what I signed up >> > to do as an >> > ASF board member in terms of maintaining that vendor >> neutrality, >> > irrespective of whether >> > or not people don’t like my directness, frankness, and >> discussion. >> > >> > Chris >> > >> > On 11/4/16, 1:09 PM, "Russell Bradberry" >> > <rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > - ... we are arguing whether to f'ing moderate >>it >> through. Wow. >> > Great >> > job. >> > - Do you think it's healthy to send emails >>trying >> to talk shit >> > instead >> > of ... >> > - ... project? Or is Twitter the official list >> now? Go ahead, >> > I'll wait. >> > >> > >> > Given your behavior and rhetoric on this thread, I >> believe you lack the >> > professionalism and character to be a board member >> of anything, let >> > alone >> > representing the Apache Software Foundation and >>it's >> ideals. >> > I've CC'd the >> > rest of the Apache board because I would like to >> formally complain about >> > your divisive rhetoric and overall unprofessional >> conduct within this >> > mailing list. >> > >> > This list, and community, are made up of >>individuals >> and volunteers. I >> > believe, attacking them, even though you believe >>you >> may have been >> > attacked, detracts from the conversation and >> elevates tension in an >> > already >> > tense community. I encourage others to chime in >>if >> I am misreading >> > here. I >> > personally feel that someone acting in a >>leadership >> capacity, such as a >> > board member, should be held to a higher standard >>of >> professionalism and >> > conduct when doing business; whether it is with >> their board member hat >> > on >> > or not. I would hate for it to be assumed that >>the >> entire Apache board >> > encourages, promotes, or even acts in this manner. >> > >> > -Russ >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 1:18 PM Mattmann, Chris A >> (3010) < >> > chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: >> > >> > > Mark Thomas got it done ✅ >> > > >> > > Sent from my iPhone >> > > >> > > > On Nov 4, 2016, at 10:13 AM, Jason Brown >> > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > s/sis/is >> > > > >> > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:12 AM, Jason Brown >> > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >> Chris, >> > > >> >> > > >> Yes, I would like to be added, and here sis >>the >> ticket I >> > filed: >> > > >> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-12858. >> > > >> >> > > >> Thanks, >> > > >> >> > > >> -Jason >> > > >> >> > > >> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Chris >>Mattmann >> > <mattm...@apache.org> >> > > >> wrote: >> > > >> >> > > >>> I have apmail karma and can add moderators. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Jason I can add you - please confirm you >>would >> like to >> > be added. Did >> > > you >> > > >>> file the ticket - if so point me to it. If >>you >> > haven't yet, no worries >> > > I >> > > >>> can still add you. Let me know. Thanks. >> > > >>> >> > > >>>> On 2016-11-04 09:54 (-0700), Jason Brown >> > <jasedbr...@gmail.com> >> > > wrote: >> > > >>>> Gary, >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> I've just started looking into the >>moderator >> > component due to this >> > > >>> thread; >> > > >>>> I admit I did not know about it before (my >> fault). >> > Yes, I would like >> > > to >> > > >>> be >> > > >>>> added. Apparently, I need to file an INFRA >> ticket >> > (as per >> > > >>>> >> > >> https://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#mailing-list-moderators), >> > > >>> which >> > > >>>> I will do in the next few minutes. >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> -Jason >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Gary >>Dusbabek >> > <gdusba...@gmail.com> >> > > >>> wrote: >> > > >>>> >> > > >>>>> I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the >> > only one with moderator privs. Any >> > > >>> other >> > > >>>>> committer/PMCs interested? >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> Sorry, it's a chore to begin with and >> > I've been traveling this week. >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> Gary. >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 4, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Chris >> Mattmann >> > <mattm...@apache.org> >> > > >>>>> wrote: >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Hi Folks, >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Kelly Sommers sent a message to >> > dev@cassandra and I'm trying to >> > > >>> figure >> > > >>>>>> out if it's in moderation. >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Can the moderators speak up? >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> Cheers, >> > > >>>>>> Chris >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>>> >> > > >>>>> >> > > >>>> >> > > >>> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
