To summarize the discussion so far: * Some Arrow Java users are still on JDK 8 * Arrow v14 is proposed as the final version with JDK 8 support * Arrow v14 can support patch releases if necessary for JDK 8 users * There is an open question to decide if JDK 11 should be dropped simultaneously
Gang Wu, I'm curious what are your thoughts given your initial concerns? -Dane On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 12:00 AM Jacob Wujciak-Jens <ja...@voltrondata.com.invalid> wrote: > From a release engineer perspective (without java knowledge) I agree with > Micah, I'd rather make a patch release for an older version if needed but > modernize the codebase and simplify CI! > > > On Sat, Oct 7, 2023 at 5:27 AM Micah Kornfield <emkornfi...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I think given the stability of Arrow Java, dropping support probably > makes > > sense. If a bug comes up or consumers really need to new features we can > > always make a patch release of an older version. > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:13 PM Dane Pitkin <d...@voltrondata.com.invalid > > > > wrote: > > > > > I also learned today that Apache Spark has dropped support for Java 8 > and > > > 11 for their next release (v4.0)[1]. Should we consider dropping Java > 11 > > as > > > well? > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/spark/pull/43005 > > > > > > -Dane > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 5, 2023 at 3:30 PM Dane Pitkin <d...@voltrondata.com> > wrote: > > > > > > > I created a GH issue[1] proposing the removal of Java 8 support. It > > > > would target the Arrow v15 release (~Jan 2024). > > > > > > > > IMO it would be in the best interest of the project for two major > > > reasons: > > > > 1. Unblock the Java Platform Module System (JPMS)[2] implementation. > > > > 2. Unblock Arrow from upgrading dependencies that no longer support > > Java > > > > 8. (See [1] for examples) > > > > > > > > Since Arrow Java has been quite stable, will Java 8 users be okay > with > > > > pinning Arrow to the last supported release (v14) if the Arrow > project > > > > ultimately decides to remove Java 8 support? > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/38051 > > > > [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Platform_Module_System > > > > > > > > -Dane > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 12:26 PM Dane Pitkin <d...@voltrondata.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> - As a low level library, users have to add specific flags to use > > > >>> Java 9 and up with Arrow to resolve issues with java.nio. This has > > > >>> been annoying for our customers constantly. If this is not > resolved, > > > >>> I would say we may see a lot of complaints in the future. > > > >>> > > > >> I filed issue 37739[1] to track this, but it sounds like this can't > be > > > >> changed until Java 21 or 24. > > > >> > > > >> - It seems that the EOL of Java 8 from Oracle is Dec 2030 [2]. A lot > > > >>> users will still stay on it for a long time. At least this is true > > for > > > >>> our > > > >>> customers. So I am afraid we may not upgrade to newer versions > > > >>> of Arrow if it no longer supports Java 8. > > > >>> > > > >> Java 8 does have a long Extended Support timeline, but a recent > > > >> report shows Java 11 increasing in adoption vs Java 8. "More than > 56% > > of > > > >> applications are now using Java 11 in production (up from 48% in > 2022 > > > and > > > >> 11% in 2020). Java 8 is a close second with nearly 33% of > applications > > > >> using it in production (down from 46% in 2022)."[2] > > > >> I expect the Java ecosystem will find a way to move on from Java 8 > > much > > > >> sooner than 2030, meaning many of Arrow's dependencies could drop > > > support > > > >> for Java 8 before then. At this point, Arrow may be forced to > support > > a > > > >> higher minimum Java version. > > > >> > > > >> That being said, it's hard to argue against real use cases. I'd be > > > >> curious to hear what Java version other users of Arrow are using > (and > > if > > > >> there is a timeline to upgrade if on Java 8). > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> [1]https://github.com/apache/arrow/issues/37739 > > > >> [2] > > > >> > > > > > > https://newrelic.com/sites/default/files/2023-04/new-relic-2023-state-of-the-java-ecosystem-2023-04-20.pdf > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -Dane > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 11:45 AM Gang Wu <ust...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Thanks for bringing this up! > > > >>> > > > >>> I have two concerns of dropping Java 8 support: > > > >>> - As a low level library, users have to add specific flags [1] to > use > > > >>> Java 9 and up with Arrow to resolve issues with java.nio. This has > > > >>> been annoying for our customers constantly. If this is not > resolved, > > > >>> I would say we may see a lot of complaints in the future. > > > >>> - It seems that the EOL of Java 8 from Oracle is Dec 2030 [2]. A > lot > > > >>> users will still stay on it for a long time. At least this is true > > for > > > >>> our > > > >>> customers. So I am afraid we may not upgrade to newer versions > > > >>> of Arrow if it no longer supports Java 8. > > > >>> > > > >>> [1] > > https://arrow.apache.org/docs/java/install.html#java-compatibility > > > >>> [2] > > > >>> > > https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-support-roadmap.html > > > >>> > > > >>> Best, > > > >>> Gang > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2023 at 11:14 PM David Dali Susanibar Arce < > > > >>> davi.sar...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> > Hi Arrow Java developers, > > > >>> > > > > >>> > I would like to propose a timeline for dropping support for Java > 8: > > > >>> > - Propose to drop JDK8 in Arrow v15 (2 releases from now) > > > >>> > - JDK 21 support will be added before removal of JDK8 > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Why? > > > >>> > - Java 8 no longer receives Premier Support (1) > > > >>> > - Some Arrow Java (test) dependencies have already started to > drop > > > >>> > Java 8 support, forcing us to pin to older packager versions > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Also note: > > > >>> > - gRPC Java may drop support for a JDK version when that version > is > > > no > > > >>> > longer receiving Premier Support from Oracle (2), more detail at > > Java > > > >>> > 8 / Java 11 support timeline in gRPC here (3) > > > >>> > - Spark plans to tentatively drop JDK 8 support in Spark 4.0 (4), > > > >>> > which has a release timeline of approximately 2024-06 (5). Is it > > fine > > > >>> > for us to drop JDK 8 support before spark? > > > >>> > > > > >>> > (1) > > > >>> > > https://www.oracle.com/java/technologies/java-se-support-roadmap.html > > > >>> > (2) > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > https://github.com/grpc/proposal/pull/283/files#:~:text=gRPC%20Java%20may,support%5D > > > >>> > . > > > >>> > (3) > > https://groups.google.com/g/grpc-io/c/-XK6Kd_19YQ/m/-4s07TzdAgAJ > > > >>> > (4) https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SPARK-44112 > > > >>> > (5) > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@spark.apache.org/msg30460.html > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Consider: > > > >>> > - JDK8 deprecation is currently not mandatory. We simply want to > > > >>> > devote more time to development of Java LTS versions 11, 17 and > 21. > > > >>> > - Java 11 is dropping Premier Support this month. > > > >>> > > > > >>> > Best regards, > > > >>> > > > > >>> > -- > > > >>> > David Susanibar > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > >> > > > > > >
