Hi Vikram, Thank you for taking the time to review the proposal. I appreciate your insights — I will make sure to reach out to you directly in the future for feedback as that would've undoubtedly saved us some time and effort.
In regards to the separation of user management, I understand your concerns and, on a high-level, I agree with you. However, I think it would be beneficial to have more details on how it will work. Here are a few questions that come to mind: 1. How will the user-id/group-id interface interact with Airflow resource-level permissions? What parts of "John can-edit dag1 and can-view dag2" be part of Airflow core? What will be exposed to the external system? 2. Who will be responsible for managing the resource-level permissions? Will it be the external system? 3. What are the limitations of this new pluggable model compared to FAB? Will there be restrictions on the granularity of resource access that Airflow admins can provide to their users? 4. As Jarek pointed out, with this change we want to make authorization externally driven. Will this have a significant impact on Airflow performance as authorization will be required for fetching variables, executing tasks, etc.? 5. What will the migration process look like for existing users to this non-FAB pluggable model? In addition, are there any other user scenarios, beyond multi-tenancy, that Airflow users are looking to enable and that require this pluggability? Asking as I haven't come across them. Overall, I believe we need more information on your proposal before seeking feedback from the community. Could we work together during February to develop a concrete proposal? Beside this, I would like to propose that we define the scope and long-term vision of "Airflow core". To achieve this, it may be helpful to first outline the perspectives of the Airflow PMCs. Recently, there have been discussions regarding the separation of executors into a separate package, the implementation of pluggable schedulers, and other related topics. Currently, these decisions and discussions are somewhat ad hoc and are made through the mailing list. I would be happy to collaborate and invest time in this effort. Regards Shubham On 2023-02-13, 11:04 AM, "Jarek Potiuk" <[email protected]> wrote: CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. Hey Vikram, I think it's brilliant and I wonder how it happened that had not occurred to us earlier. And I believe that is due to the natural tendency of "following as we always did" rather than thinking completely out-of-the-box. Thanks Vikram for bringing it up. The funny thing is that when I see this: > However, I don't agree that this level of user management belongs in "Core Airflow". I almost immediately think - NOOOOO, why, it's always been here, how can we remove it? But then if you look a bit closer: > think this is a time to consider the concept of a "user management provider" with a simple built-in implementation being the current Airflow functionality, enabling alternate more complex (but separate) implementations such as your proposal here as alternate user management providers. Then it starts to make way more sense. Way more. And when you look further: > Maybe, this also enables us to get rid of the Fab security manager from core Airflow? My heart jumps and I am immediately sold on the idea. When I was commenting on the doc initially, something was not right. I had a feeling It is probably the 5th time I am looking and commenting on a similar document. And, well, I did, actually. Most of the things we discussed there are already implemented out there. We just need to make sure we expose enough of the API to use them. For example we have Keycloak that is an open source implementation of Identity and Access Management. With everything out there already integrated. and I've been part of the project that integrated just the authentication part. Now if we rethink the authorization and make it simpler and "externally driven", this will not only be faster IMHO, but also will allow enterprise users to integrate much better. I believe following the path that Vikram outlined will be a good direction for everyone in the community - including all the Manage Service providers, who will have a far easier job on integrating Airflow into their authentication models. J. On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 6:24 PM Vikram Koka <[email protected]> wrote: > > Shubham and Vincent, > > Let me start by saying that I apologize for my delayed response to your original email. > > I appreciate the detailed write-up and the thought behind it. I completely agree with your use case and understand how this is applicable to enterprises with multiple data teams using Airflow. > > However, I don't agree that this level of user management belongs in "Core Airflow". > > I strongly believe that the core Airflow mission is for the community at large and for data practitioners either individuals or teams within enterprises. And therefore, I don't disagree with the intent of making it easier for enterprise teams to adopt Airflow. But, I think there is a never ending list of user management features which are needed to support Enterprise needs. We have already struggled with this over time and faced challenges with the Fab security manager and its integration in Airflow. > > I think we should use this opportunity and your use case to "separate the user management" from Core Airflow outside of the absolute basics. I think this is a time to consider the concept of a "user management provider" with a simple built-in implementation being the current Airflow functionality, enabling alternate more complex (but separate) implementations such as your proposal here as alternate user management providers. Maybe, this also enables us to get rid of the Fab security manager from core Airflow? > > Best regards, > Vikram > > > On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:22 AM Beck, Vincent <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks __ >> >> On 2023-02-03, 10:55 AM, "Jarek Potiuk" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. >> >> >> >> Added. >> >> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 3:53 PM Beck, Vincent >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Thank you! https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/~vin100.beck >> > >> > On 2023-02-02, 5:38 PM, "Jarek Potiuk" <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe. >> > >> > >> > >> > What's your cwiki ID, Vincent (I'll add you without going into details yet) >> > >>
