On Tue, Dec 29, 2015 at 11:41 AM, Steve Fink <sf...@mozilla.com> wrote:
> On 12/22/2015 10:06 AM, L. David Baron wrote: > >> On Tuesday 2015-12-22 11:49 -0500, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: >> >>> On 2015-12-22 11:18 AM, Kartikaya Gupta wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 3:11 PM, L. David Baron <dba...@dbaron.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree it's definitely gone up recently, and agree that it causes a >>>>> lot of wasted time. I'm not convinced about closing the tree, >>>>> though; keeping the tree closed for extended periods just leads to >>>>> big backups. >>>>> >>>>> How about everybody reading this message takes a look at the list on >>>>> http://brasstacks.mozilla.com/orangefactor/ and takes one of them to >>>>> fix? (Or, better, redoes the search filtered on the last 3 days >>>>> instead of last 7.) >>>>> >>>> >>>> I feel like a voluntary approach is likely to have very little effect, >>>> given the way our goals and priorities are structured. There's very >>>> little incentive to voluntarily spend time banging your head against a >>>> wall. That's why I'm more in favor of a forced approach that is >>>> mandated by managers/product owners/sheriffs (i.e. people who can >>>> actually tell us to some extent what to do). >>>> >>> I have tried to volunteer some time from my weekends occasionally to look >>> into the most recurring oranges every few weeks, and usually every time I >>> manage to figure out a handful of bugs by spending a few hours and as a >>> result OF would go down in the following week, but then it would go back >>> up >>> again. This is a demotivating task and doesn't really scale to the >>> magnitude of our orange problem. I agree with kats that a voluntary >>> based >>> approach will not go anywhere. >>> >> Managers should definitely be supporting this, and sheriffs (and >> anybody else with push access) should be backing things out for >> causing intermittent oranges (even if that's not discovered until >> days/weeks later). >> >> If people don't feel they can fix intermittent oranges during the >> business day as part of their job, that's a problem. >> > > Hm... it seems like you could take that further. Fixing oranges could be > considered to be going "above and beyond" your normal responsibilities > (unless you're just fixing your own!). So for employees, you could convert > N hours of orange-fixing into up to M hours of additional PTO whenever the > orange factor > k. :-) If intermittent orange is indeed a large > project-wide drag on resources (and I believe it is), then the M+N hours of > regular work "lost" in this way should be more than compensated for by the > reduced overhead on everyone. > > Just a thought from someone who wouldn't have to work through the details. > And it's crazy enough already that I won't mention the tacked-on idea that > if unpaid contributors spend time fixing oranges, then we'd send them free > graphics hardware of the sorts that we have low pre-release coverage on, > with no strings attached other than "if you give this away, please don't > remove the sticker that says 'You can help Firefox! Just switch to the beta > release channel! This card is worth 42 points on Mozilla's Hardware > Diversity Scoreboard.'")... ;-) > > But I don't think having mozilla-inbound/mozilla-central be closed >> more than it already is is going to help anything. It will just >> make people frustrated that they can't land what they've been >> working on. >> > > Amen. Trying to artificially force this stuff is going in the wrong > direction. After all, you'd be reducing productivity from the top-down in > order to improve productivity. It might work, it might not, it might help > for a while but have long-term negative consequences. > > Personally, I feel like getting farther away from our volunteer-driven > roots is dangerous. Sure, we have lots of paid staff now, but you really > don't want any more selection pressure to push the overall contributor base > towards people who are involved for the money and away from people who are > motivated by the mission. I don't follow the concerns in this last part. Can you clarify which proposal you're concerned will take us farther from our volunteer-driven roots? The part about ordering paid staff to do unpleasant-but-necessary things, or something else? > > _______________________________________________ > dev-platform mailing list > dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org > https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform > _______________________________________________ dev-platform mailing list dev-platform@lists.mozilla.org https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-platform
