On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote: > On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:22:42PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote: > > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote: > > > So call the group of people who can upload X something else. > > > > > > The XSF to me is meaningless as a concept > > > > If it is meaningless to you, it does not mean it is meaningless to the > > entire community. > > It doesn't necessarily mean it isn't, either. I like to think I have a > little bit of experience in XSF matters.
I know and i don't pretend to overrule your opinions. You know that, i just express mine. > > > > - the BTS is world-write[0], > > > and the really important X group are the gatekeepers to Debian - being > > > yourself, Branden, and possibly Ishikawa. Let's call this group the DUX > > > - Debian X Uploaders. > > > > <offtopic>DUX is not appropriate either for other political reasons that > > would scare italian people away from here.</offtopic> > > Sorry, I didn't know. > No worries.. you couldn't ;) > > > If I decide and propose something, will you upload it tomorrow? > > > > No, and you know that. it would still go trough the priority list, commit, > > review and test. And you know as much as we do how much time it takes that > > process. If you want to question the time we take to include things that's > > a separate argument. If you want to question that we do not accept > > anything than sorry but you know that is not true. > > The point I was making was that there is a group with significantly more > power than everyone else, and the ultimate gatekeepers of Debian in X. > If this is not true, and I'm part of the XSF, can I start uploading > again? You know that i personally don't care if you upload "my" packages. Like i don't care if anybody else does, BUT only if there is a reason to do so (like i am not doing a proper job on them). Oh i am underlining "my" only because they are packages that have my name in the changelog/maintainer field and i take responsability for them. Not the ownership. > > > The reality is that you guys make decisions -- good or bad -- and have > > > the final say on what hits Debian, as it stands. This is not necessarily > > > a bad thing, but it's far away from the Utopia you paint where everyone > > > can do everything. > > > > Clearly there is some minimal filtering. We are not patch-o-matic robots. > > And we take responsabilities for the changes we introduce. Personally if i > > don't feel to comfortable in applying a patch, i rather prefer to check it > > twice before inclusion. Specially because we will have to maintain it > > during the time. > > Right, so you're saying you're part of a class of people who have powers > and responsibilities in regard to Debian's X packages above and beyond > the normal users? I am not part of any special class, but yes it is clear to everybody that who uploads have already some extra power... like a @d.o address and the gpg key in the debian keyring. Otherwise you can't upload. > > > I cannot contribute effectively, and I also feel that I cannot work > > > within the XSF, while the SABDFL continues to feel he cannot work with > > > me, and very rarely communicates with me. I have been actively removed > > > from the DUX, and thus from X maintainence. That's why I can't > > > contribute. > > > > And you are so wrong here. I am almost tired to repeat to you the same > > thing over and over.. in irc and now on the mailing list. > > I don't feel I can work with the XSF as it stands. I worry that anything > I contribute might end up being for nothing; far higher than normal. > Thus, I don't contribute. I remember only one bug report from you after i took the position of RM and it has been fixed pretty fast iirc since it was high priority in the TODO list. Anyway.. again is up to you.. > Now, take a deep breath, and imagine that you're not talking to Daniel > Stone, but to someone who you've just pulled up in an internet cafe. > What are their answers to all of the above? It depends of course, but even a bug report is contributing. > My point is that the XSF is not the important club to be in; i am not trying to convince you to be part of anything neither i go around with a XSF t-shirt ;) > I invite you to rescind your Debian account and still claim you're a DD > because sponsorship works. :P Well.. to be hounest it did for me.. :P > I think we need a name for xfree86's Uploaders. We'll call this mythical > cabal that, and we can agree that that's a closed group that I'm not in, > and that they are the arbiters of what goes into Debian's X. If the > latter is not true, feel free to throw me in Uploaders, next upload. There is no *cabal* and technically you don't need anything in the Uploaders to upload any package ;) Fabio -- <user> fajita: step one <fajita> Whatever the problem, step one is always to look in the error log. <user> fajita: step two <fajita> When in danger or in doubt, step two is to scream and shout.