On 2008-11-04, Helen Faulkner penned: > > Ooh, can I play devil's advocate here? <grin>
I'd like to play, too! And I hope I do not sound confrontational ... just trying to express some thoughts / starting points for discussion. I've snipped throughout ... if I've oversnipped, I apologize. It was all good stuff, but I didn't want to quote your entire post. > As far as I know, studies have tended to back this up, even studies that were > designed not to pick up on stereotyped differences but to look at the > different > ways our brains might solve different types of problems. There are also > countless anecdotes of kids who were brought up intentionally without gender > stereotypes (for example that boys play with guns, girls with dolls), who > ended > up wanting those gender-specific toys anyway. (me, I'm a woman and I liked > dinosaurs - I am not in any way suggesting that any of this goes for all or > any > particular individual). Why would skills not have an innate gender bias?* Good question. But I don't put much faith in these studies and anecdotes, because it's hard to control for known bias in our culture, let alone be able to recognize it in all of its possible forms. From inside our cultures, we may be able to see certain patterns, but others will elude us because they're as invisible as air. I am sure that there are cases of parents having the intention of raising children without gender bias, but that's not the same as bringing up children without gender bias. Guns and dolls are only the extreme tip of the iceberg. It's the subconscious things that will get you every time, and even if somehow parents managed to be miraculously completely free of any societal bias, they certainly can't ensure that everyone the child interacts with is free of these biases. There are grandparents, aunts and uncles, neighbors, teachers, random people on the street. Kids are good at picking up subtle signals; it's how they survive and learn to function in society. > I believe that many more women have the potential to be excellent at > technology > stuff than currently are. And that there are also areas where more men have > the > potential to be excellent than currently are. I believe that societal rules, > customs, programming and expectations are a problem for all of this. But I > don't for a moment think that in an "ideal" society where all those customs > and > expectations were not acting, that you'd end up with a 50:50 split between > men > and women in any field. I suspect you're right, but I don't think we can possibly verify that opinion with the data we currently have available (ie, people who exist within the current societal structures). * I changed the subject to my pet topic of innate differences -- monique Help us help you: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
