Bas Wijnen <wij...@debian.org> writes: > [Moving this to -project, where it belongs; please follow up only > there, not on -user or -devel.] > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 06:18:01PM +0200, lee wrote: >> Why doesn't Debian just do a GR on this issue? > > Because for a GR, a member of Debian has to request it and it needs to > be seconded by at least 5 other members (constitution 4.2.1, 4.2.7). > This has not happened.
I know, and I'm suggesting to omit this requirement. >> Considering that the users are Debians' priority, couldn't this issue be >> a case in which significant concerns from/of the users about an issue >> might initiate a GR? > > No. Debian is a very elitist organization. The members decide what to > do, and nobody else does. As a whole we rule over our users with > enlightened absolutism. The main difference with rulers of countries is > that our users can go away more easily. ;-) > > Debian is extremely democratic for its members, but it is utterly > undemocratic for its users. And there's nothing wrong with that, IMO. Then they shouldn't say in their social contract that the users and their needs are the priority. >> Wouldn't it speak loudly for Debian and its ways and for what it >> stands for, or used to stand for, if it was established procedure that >> issues arising significant concerns amongst the users can lead to a >> GR? > > I'll speak for myself here: I don't really care about the init system. > I am unhappy with the emotions that this debate is causing, but I'm not > very interested in the technical parts. From what I see on the mailing > lists, it seems that a few users are very unhappy and they keep bringing > this up. But if this would be a big issue for many people, then there > should be no problem finding 6 members to start a GR (our members are > users, too). That still hasn't happened, so I conclude that it isn't a > big issue. There can be many reasons for why there hasn't been a GR. Some of these may be that the devs/maintainers don't really care about the init system, or that they aren't aware of how far-reaching this issue is. >> I'm sure we could find quite a few supporters for having a GR amongst >> the users (here). And after all, we're all kinda stuck in the same >> boat. A GR might have the potential to make the gap between users and >> devs/maintainers a lot smaller. Otherwise, this gap will only continue >> to become wider and wider. > > There are many members. If you can't manage to convince 6 of them, we > don't consider it a big issue. You may disagree, but that's Debian's > rules. I think I don't need to convince 6 people on this list because there are already enough people convinced. -- Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons might swallow us. Finally, this fear has become reasonable. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87h9z9uepr....@yun.yagibdah.de
