-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 On 09/23/2014 at 10:19 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Tuesday 23 September 2014 14:53:15 Joe wrote: > >> As Lisi and others have pointed out, the design of systemd and >> the decision of Debian to make systemd the 'default', or in >> practice the only init system, are set in stone. There's nothing >> to discuss. > > I have never said anything of the kind. I have said only that it > is up to the developers to decide what they do. They are > volunteers. > > If someone wants to maintain or develop something else, then > obviously they can. There is no stone about it. But DO something > constructive. Maintain sysvinit. Write patches for the > applications that depend on systend so that they do not depend on > systemd. As I have pointed out repeatedly, the problem is not that the applications depend on systemd; in fact, often they don't. They depend on external functionality, which happens to be implemented in systemd, and (at least initially) only in systemd. There are two possible solutions to this: change systemd so that that functionality is implemented in a way which does not require systemd to be PID 1 (and preferably so that the functionality is entirely external to, and merely depended on by, systemd), or implement the functionality outside of systemd in such a way that the applications can depend on your implementation instead. That latter approach is what the systemd-shim project has been trying to do; certainly, helping to do so would be a constructive thing to do. But that project has bugs, and will perpetually be playing catch-up to systemd, as long as the systemd project does not embrace (which is distinct from "not reject") the idea of implementing this functionality outside of systemd itself - and that would be the former approach. systemd-shim, and the projects it draws on such as cgmanager, are a workaround for the dependency problems caused by flaws in the design of systemd. A true fix would have to happen in systemd itself, by changing that design. However, since that design appears to be actively intentional, and since changing it in a way which would address those flaws would be a major project and might involve dropping some features, it seems highly unlikely that the systemd developers would agree to making such a change. > Etc. But stop winging. Stop taking over this list with endless > useless complaints. I agree that pure complaints do only so much good, and that that good is - - at least in practice - fairly limited. But complaints are not all that has been happening here, and while the complaints have not been shut down by the posts objecting to the systemd-discussion traffic, it looks to me as if much of the discussion which is not purely complaints and might be more potentially useful *has* been cut off in response to those objections. If you're addressing only the few people who are doing nothing but complaining, then okay, fine (although I'm not 100% positive there is anyone still posting complaints who isn't also, at least occasionally, saying something worth noting). But the comments I see from you read to me as if they are directed at everyone who's taking part in the systemd-related discussions here (aside possibly from people with specific "I saw this problem, how do I fix it?" questions), which is overly broad-brush IMO. > And listen to what anyone else is saying. You want to be heard. > Hear others. This I do agree with. - -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJUIYWlAAoJEASpNY00KDJryG8P/0RkWZmWAY3E4U3fTx+iz9Fe TeP376LNCoqwiVQeq4AR2PnS7VDKz1NzGtp6WJDp1BMppz5JnDX5JNPTj6G8DIAU vhGhySbYMV/oHAQa24lHthv1WHa+MMHqbOeNtyfC6K79JqieKyhdy8W1M/MFz+ht FDDIMWoq1B8K/LKBqttr692cCZ0FR1s/AxFlcKJQBPqfcAdkeYsDgFWau9U9gESp B2QMQxgtiPGO4+yQlFP9+RHLxL05RbkAj787xbaeI4DAwY+uWm2tj/dVx94fwKyr G8Ya2wVjfXXeYgONSMVTq/jHfLXwIkYJlztDWyEQMQuIBHht2ls8yKJSrWttdVRj uU8hmGpZO9Yyg+uSYzIVTkYCUnnmx+fo5tP8riBinbp6GGSY8peiGux4afN+IsGZ 6joHp9SHEywGBqZ8Y5q2zc+g4cHtML2tnrGZ0AJcycb2euhqWlU1z+EsQ4JrmLBJ wFzd70KEOsoFk/oi0PP7LisuTS049D5ZSFkbFx2905DZZGhMd7bL+dnAOnIhRE6B O9tJg460ZNP8yJeCCoVkBnex/LUR/kGdXFqkj9ZyRq8aZS9PGBhZ3h9CmE+162rr zlCV9XD7zC8L34tY9CCzYCDaqgeW5cbO0iUMNtp5soxayNPDoonVnpI2mq4SXFnz Hx651WdxYUa6os+lSVuG =/rt3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/542185a5.7000...@fastmail.fm
